In 1973 as a student at NorthCentralBibleCollege of the Assemblies of God, I remember sitting in chapel when the president of our college spoke about the dangers of the Latter Rain movement. He told us, “We are a non-prophet organization.” In the late 1940’s the Assemblies of God had lost many congregations to the heretical Latter Rain movement and many of my BibleCollege teachers could still remember those days. They warned us to steer clear of any who claimed to be apostles and prophets. We were told to avoid anyone who claimed “new revelations” from God and to stick to the Bible alone as authoritative revelation.
My teachers were godly men like John Phillips, Wesley Smith, and William Snow whose teachings were grounded in Scripture. Because I had some hyper-pious tendencies as a new Christian, they warned me and encouraged me to learn the Greek, learn hermeneutics, and to not go outside of the clear teachings of the Bible. It was Assemblies of God Pentecostals who brought my wife’s family to the Lord while I was engaged to her and ultimately brought me to the Lord. From the BibleCollege teachers to the pastors I had early in my walk with the Lord, all of them warned against the type of teachings routinely promoted today, teachings that are attacks on the gospel. In fact, one day a guest speaker in chapel espoused the prosperity gospel. In class immediately after chapel, our teacher warned us that this was false teaching; it shamed many godly Christians he had known over the years who gave much of their money to churches and missionaries who consequently lived their entire lives quite poor. How things have changed.
This April there will be a celebration of the 100th anniversary of the Azusa Street revival. The celebration advertisement promises “The Spiritual Experience of a Lifetime.” On page 8 of the glossy promotional brochure is Thomas E. Trask, General Superintendent of the Assemblies of God who is also a program participant. Trask calls the event, “a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity for the Pentecostal/Charismatic church to come together to celebrate what began in the Book of Acts.”
The docket of speakers for the event reads like a Who’s Who of Heretics: T. D. Jakes, Fredrick Price, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, Jerry Savelle, Creflo Dollar, David Yonggi Cho, and Bill Hamon to name a few. What these speakers all have in common is that their teachings are incompatible with the doctrines taught earlier in the Assemblies of God and at NorthCentralBibleCollege from 1971 to 1974.
Bill Hamon (bishophamon.org claims he is not only a bishop but a “prophet-apostle”) promotes latter day apostles with new revelations, the very teaching I was warned against when I attended BibleCollege. And T. D. Jakes promotes the “oneness” anti-trinity heresy I was warned against back then.
The question is: who represents Pentecostalism today? What happened to the generation of Pentecostals that rejected the prosperity message, who rejected the apostles and prophets of the Latter Rain movement, who rejected “new prophetic revelations,” and who rejected the oneness message? That generation was firmly grounded in the authority of Scripture and the clear proclamation of the gospel of Jesus Christ. They have mostly passed from the scene of history. Today, everything they warned about is being played out at the Azusa Street Centennial, portrayed as the glorious legacy of Pentecostalism.
We cannot pretend that these teachings are compatible. If what is being preached at this modern day Azusa Street is true, then the teachers at North Central Bible College and most of the pastors in the Assemblies of God (as witnessed by position papers from the 50’s through early 70’s) were in error in the early 70’s to warn us about these teachings. If what is being taught at the Azusa conference is false, then current Pentecostal leadership owes an apology to its predecessors and needs to repent of this compromise.
Orrel Steinkamp is a retired Assemblies of God minister. He publishes “The Plumbline” (74425 Co. Rd. 21 Renville, MN56284) in which he warns about the errors that have come into the movement. He has archives of research material that show how aberrational and heretical doctrine has infiltrated the Pentecostal movement. Orrel represents the type of leadership that I sat under in BibleCollege. Sadly, there are so few men like him left on the scene of history that one wonders if the entire Pentecostal movement will become rallying place for heretics of every shape and size. If the Azusa Street Centennial is indicative of the movement in general, this has already happened.
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First, forgive me if I'm repeating what has already been stated - I couldn't wade through every comment posted here.
I currently attend an AG church with balanced teaching, after having come out of the cult of an AG congregation teaching these heresies. After reading this article, which would imply that the AG has changed it's stand on these issues, I went to the AG website and downloaded their full doctrinal statement (not the synopsis), as well as all of their position papers on specific subjects. I need to tell you that, based on what I read, the AG has NOT changed its viewpoint or doctrine, at least not officially. I realize not all AG churches are following these guidelines (I just came from one), and I can't understand why Mr. Trask would be involved in the Azusa St. celebration (shame on him), but the fact still remains that, at least officially, the AG stance is still against these latter rain teachings and such. Just thought everyone should know (perhaps I should cc: Superintendant Trask?) Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 08/17/06 05:55:47 PM
Age 53, MO
I can't add much more to the commentaries I've read. I'm reading a book by H. B. Garlock about his experiences as a missionary in Africa during the 1920s and 1930s. I just wonder if any of the televangelists like Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Copeland, Benny Hinn, etc. would do what they did if television cameras weren't capturing their every move. I believe in what James Robson is doing but even question his handling of things when I see him doing infomercials. What I dislike about all the teletypes and this includes the TBN and INSP networks is that their hands are always out for money. I saw a bearded gentlemen (back when I had cable) asking for $1,000 from every viewer and implying that people would not be blessed unless they gave.I know that isn't true because my wife and I got out of the apartment we were living in just ahead of a fire that destroyed it & due to a caring co-author and publisher that God led me to, my first book will be published sometime this winter. Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/21/06 10:25:49 PM
Age 69, TX
Enjoyed your article. Having attended several churches in the last few years because of moving, it seems to me to be an absence of solid teaching and preaching. I think in the three churches I have attended,and a few while looking,there is an effort to avoid songs about the Atoning Blood,His intense suffering on the Cross or a mention of the Rapture. Which is, by the way, almost totally missing in the modern Praise songs,or as one person said,"7- 11 songs...seven lines eleven times", with lots of drums and full volume. In the last three years I have heard only one prophecy sermon called "A Sermon on the War of Gog and Magog", which was not about the Prophecy but somehow ended up about something else totally unrelated! And a sermon about the Blood...might freighten folks! The young people are almost totally ignorant about Prophecy, the Rapture,the End Times or Blessed Hope."My people perish from lack of knowledge"! When I do talk to teens about the end times and Israel they get so excited and say we have never heard this !!! THEY HAVE NEVER HEARD ABOUT THESE THINGS IN THEIR OWN CHURCH!You cannot believe the interest,excitment and questions. How I hurt for these young people.Praise[which is great]touchy-feely,meet me at my need,etc.by young preachers who themselves have not been taught, end up getting easy converts and not making disciples through teaching the solid foundation of the scriptures with the Bible.If these preachers only knew how excited these young people get when taught the Truth instead of so much "lets get big quick and and get me on TV across the nation" PC pap,it might help,but I expect the fear of a "Bloody Gospel"chasing away mega church numbers will prevail. Yes, I do attend an A/G, and a Baptist church later to help an old friend. About the same everywhere. Lets look at several mega churches models and copy those. The Holy Spirit is so "not post modern". God help us. Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 10:56:58 PM
Age 57, VA
I am amazed at those who are upset at the "finger pointing, critisizing, and so on and so on" and add to the list of their frustrations that we need to pray for these people and not bash them. First of all these people I just described ASSUME that these others do not pray for the individuals being mentioned and thus are being just as judgemental as the ones they say are "finger pointing". Secondly, do you really not understand that the concern is not just that these people are off track but that they could easily be led down the wrong path by the anti-christ who is going to come with all kinds of false signs and wonders and a New Kind of Spirituality? It is not that we are judging those who call themselves Christians who are involved in these New Age practices, but that we are deeply concerned for their final destination. We don't want to see them deceived into falling for the anti-christ, his false one world religion and one world order. It is out of concern that these people are speaking out so loudly. It is because they love their brothers. Why can't people see this? If you saw someone getting ready to be hit by a car, you would yell, Get out of the way!" These writers are yelling, get out of the way! Look out for the danger." Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 01:10:28 PM
Age 55, NY
Thank you Bob DeWaay for saying so clearly what needs to be heard in the Church today. Our attempt to turn the Gospel of Christ into a "what have you done for me lately, God" gospel has led to an adoption of the "instant gratification" culture.
If the Prosperity Gospel is such a true portrayal of Godliness, I bet Paul, not to mention hundreds of others, is up there in heaven berating God for His lack of revealing it for their benefit in their life-times.
Doesn't quite sound the same as "What things were gain to me, these I have counted lost for Christ" not to mention first part of 2 Corinthians. Again, Thank you and well said. May the God who alone is to be praised bring His church back to the holiness He has called us to. Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 12:29:17 PM
Age 41, WI
Regardless of whether or not you agree with the teachings of the named speakers, the one thing that I noticed (in the columns and posts on this site) is that there are a lot of fingers pointing AT others. A very common thing these days seems to be to point out the problems without ever giving a solution to the problem that is being pointed out! This seems to be true no matter what denomination you 'belong' to. This is a hurting world and the hurting people in it are desperately seeking a balm for their pain. Instead of pointing to their sore, point to the Balm! It would do so much better to lift up the name of Jesus - point to the ANSWER instead of pointing to the problem. We all already know there is a problem...
I submit that those that are being led 'astray' by the people/movement that you speak so ill of are looking for answers that the didn't get when they came looking in the churches and homes of all of us who would rather speak against a man instead of speak in favor of Jesus Christ.
I must repent for my own judgmental attitudes toward some of the people or actions that I have felt were 'unbiblical' - including those I've held after reading some of the articles posted here. Each one is free to not only have their opinion but to express it... God has given us that. However, He also would have us to choose to bless and not curse - I can't imagine the hurting people that didn't find an answer after reading some of the accusations here.
Please know that I am NOT in favor of what is happening in a lot of the churches these days and I am certainly not attending this 'celebration' but I believe that the body of Christ and the unsaved would be better served by 'us' if we would just stop looking at what everyone else is doing and just do what He has instructed us to do. I submit that He would have us to live out our faith and leave the accusing of the brethren to the enemy. Click here to reply to this post
Since when is finger-pointing unbiblical?
Posted On: 06/05/08 05:52:35 PM
Age 47, AR
Seems rather strange that the most common thing I hear these days is the "live and let live" theology that is so popular. It sounds so "nice" and "christian". Only problem is that the Apostle Paul would have been on all you "no-finger-pointing" do-gooders' list for negativity. How 'bout Gal 3:1 (NEB) "You stupid Galatians..." And what about when Paul writes that he publicly confronted Peter for his desire to remain "P.C." amongst the Jewish believers? I think Paul called the shots as he saw them. BRAVO for this author's willingness to do the same. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 04:54:32 PM
Age 47, FL
I've had much the same reaction, there is a lot of finger-pointing, some-times justified, some-times very questionable. I bascially agree with all the author's intent, which I presume is to hold true to an unadulterated gospel. But sometimes I wonder how much good the way we go about it is doing. I have a long time dear friend that thinks Hinn & Copeland are the best things since sliced bread. Over the years we've had many discussions where I've tried to point out and explain the dangers of "faith" theology, but to no avail. At first glance one might think this person just got caught up in that teaching, perhaps got saved in that setting, but not so. She is in her mid 50's, been walking with the Lord most of her adult life, spending over 30 years of her life in realatively conservative Baptist churches. Even the non-denominational church she currently attends often teaches against faith theology. She'll just smile, go home & listen to her Hinn/Copeland tapes. How do I explain it? I can't. This person may be "duped" or is being "led astray" as many of the responders here would say, but this person is just as saved as they are. I'm sure of that, and while I definitely disagree with her theological philosophies, all I know is pointing my finger at her and calling her a heretic isn't the answer. Sometimes I get the idea in this forum that Satan isn't the biggest enemy, it's "mega church gurus". Never mind that perhaps thousands of people might be coming to a saving knowlege of Christ in the middle of it all. That isn't a pass being given to the teachers mentioned in the article. I don't care for them any more than the author. I just agree with the above responder that perhaps we should spend more time focusing on Christ instead calling everyone and their brother who doesn't agree with us a heretic. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/04/06 10:00:39 AM
Age 57, VA
If you study the Church Growth Movement and the growth of Mega Churches you will find the research shows that most- and I mean MOST (you can find the % when you read more about it) of the growth is TRANSFER GROWTH, from other churches. The growth is not from new converts but is from "stealing sheep." Good book to read is "Stealing Sheep" by Chadwick. He was in the Church Growth Movement and has a very large church and has repented of hurting the smaller churches and their Pastors and the livelihood of the Pastors and their families. Eye Opening Book. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 05/06/06 05:15:29 PM
Age 42, WI
You accuse the mega churches of 'stealing sheep'... did it ever occur to you that the 'sheep' left the one church and started attending the mega church because they weren't being ministered to by the former church? Like I said, there are a lot of hurting people in this world and they are looking for something to relieve their pain. Until the 'body' of Christ does things the way its "Head" said to do them, people will 'church hop', articles will be written to point out all the warts and wrinkles and the world will never hear the gospel of Christ (remember... gospel is GOOD news) and the hurting will still be hurting. Again I submit that we leave the accusing of the brethren to Satan and start behaving Christ-like. Jesus said that they (the unsaved) will know us by our love FOR ONE ANOTHER - meaning when the unsaved see how we treat our brethren, they will want to BE brethren. I haven't seen anything that I (saved) would want to be associated with in a very long time [with regard to the 'church' here in America] so why expect an unsaved person to want to be associated with the 'church'? How does any of this qualify as being 'salt and light'? God forgive us for the hardness of our hearts! Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/04/06 02:00:00 PM
Age 47, FL
I don't care for the "mega church growth" movement either, I do not wish to appear as an apologist or supporter of them, but I think the problem myself and a few others have is the general tone involved. But in reference to your original post, I have to ask = Are you suggesting anyone following the likes of Hinn or Dollar or Rick Warren are on their way to hell? It is an inference I've seen elsewhere in this forum. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/04/06 04:15:18 PM
Age 57, VA
For me, and I would think many others,I would go so far as to say that the immediate alarm and concern is that these leaders are "unknowingly?" leading many, many people into the arms of a ONE World Religion, through the New Age practices. Tragically many could be a sitting duck for the Anti-Christ to deceive. "You have to connect the dots", as one other commenter said. You can take it from there. We just want to warn people of this deception. Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 11:25:16 AM
Age 49, NC
Sadly, I've seen the changes in our (A/G) denomination over the years, too. Somehow, our own leaders have jumped on the band wagon and have somehow been deceived by the enemy. So many have jumped on the latest band wagon of "Purpose Driven" stuff. We left our own 3,000-4,000 member church due to this. We can feel the struggles of change in most every church we visit now (of every denomination). Hundreds left our own congregation. There is definitely a spirit of change going around, but I don't believe it is from the Holy Spirit. Everything's blending together. Future One World Church? The Word asks, when Jesus returns to this earth, will He find any faith? As a teen, I used to be so proud to belong to a denomination which was so biblically grounded. When we'd sing, "I'm so glad I'm a part of the family of God," I would quietly sing, "I'm so glad I'm a part of the Assemblies of God." (Excuse my spiritual immaturity at the time.) We must never devote ourselves wholly to a denomination, single congregation, or any one man, and we most definitely MUST STUDY THE WORD for ourselves so that we may not be led astray by false teachings. Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 10:51:10 AM
Age 57, VA
After reading the comments, How about how we are "conformed into his image" through suffering!" Ouch! Prosperity teachers like to avoid all this! Also they teach the FOLLOWER, (I WAS ONE FOR 15 YEARS) to speak NO DOUBT but only Faith into situations. They teach not to pray or say "if it be thy will", which indicates DOUBT, because you can KNOW the WILL of God and then you need only pray according to that will IN FAITH, in order to receive the answer to your prayers. TOO BAD FOR THEM, that James 4:14 says, "Come now you who say, Today or tomorrow, we shall go to such and such a city, and spend a year there and engage in business and make a profit." Yet you do not know what your life will be like tomorrow. instead YOU OUGHT to say, "IF THE LORD WILLS, we shall live and also do this or that." But as it is, you BOAST in your ARROGANCE all such BOASTING IS EVIL. Therefore to one who knows the right thing to do, and does not do it, to him it is sin. (In context, the last statement "to him it is sin" is referring to the preceding verses, even though we can apply it to other areas of our life. But we must not fail to apply it to the example in context, that it is arrogant and boastful and evil to assume you always know the will of God and to never pray, "if it be thy will, Lord". One other biggy when taken in the context referring to those who have more money than others, James 2:1-6 says, "My brethren, do not hold your faith in Jesus with an attitude of personal favoritism. For if a man comes in to your assembly with a gold ring and dressed in fine clothes, and you say, "You sit here in a good place," and you say to the POOR MAN, "You sit over there, or sit down by my footstool." Have you not made distinctions among yourselves and become Judges with evil motives? Listen. My beloved brethren: DID NOT GOD CHOOSE THE POOR OF THS WORLD TO BE RICH IN FAITH AND HEIRS OF THE KINGDOM WHICH HE PROMISED TO THOSE WHO LOVE HIM. BUT YOU HAVE DISHONORED THE POOR MAN." Put that in your pipe and smoke it Mr. Copeland, Price, Dollar, etc. I was raised by godly, deeply spiritual, overflowing with FAITH, black nannies, who raised me and who were a testimony to me that when a person is kept down, and has very little to show in this life, if they have Jesus, they have more than any riches can buy. They have found the Pearl of Great Price who grants them RIGHTEOUSNESS, PEACE AND JOY IN THE HOLY GHOST, which is CLEARLY UNCORRUPTED BY THE LAODACIAN MATERIALISTIC SPIRIT OF THIS WORLD THAT PROMOTES PROSPERITY AS A SIGN OF A PERSON'S GREAT FAITH. If your response is that this context is only talking about where the rich man verses the poor man gets to sit in a service, your interpretation is very shallow and only partially correct. If the poor man is called by God, "GREAT IN FAITH, then why isn't that preached by the prosperity preachers. Can it be that the "love for YOUR money is the root of evil." Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/02/06 10:00:24 PM
Age 45, AL
I agree with almost everything you stated, except when you said the oneness heresy. While I do not agree with T.D. Fakes, I believe that the trinity is heresy.
And this is coming from a former methodist who is now walking in the light of jesus Christ. Holiness, however, is a good stand to take; the harder the better, these days.
It seems so many people want to be milk-slop Christians, taking the easy path, instead of enduring hardness, as a good soldier for Christ. In that light, I applaud your strong holiness efforts. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 09:38:54 PM
Age 71, OH
If the Godhead is not a trinity, how can Jesus, the Son, be seated at the right hand of the Father, making intercession for us? How can one person sit next to himself? Who is Jesus making intercession to if not the Father? Does He pop in and out of the personage of the Godhead? For those who think that the doctrine of the Trinity is difficult to understand, how do they handle "oneness"? Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 12:08:22 PM
Age 41, TX
The Trinity is a heresy and you are walking in the light of Jesus Christ! You have just given two incompatible statements and you clearly stand outside the bounds of what has been orthodox Christianity from the beginning. If you are not a oneness man, then what heresy do you propound? The Trinity is one of the most obvious doctrinal teachings in the New Testament. Obviously you cannot deny the use of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So you must somehow deny that these 3 are all God. If you do not deny Jesus is God then you surely do not deny Father or Holy Spirit. So therefore you must deny Jesus & that is no Christian. The Word is either eternal & offers up an eternal sacrifice or He does not. I am afraid that in your theology, He cannot. Believing in the real Jesus is key, the Jesus of the Bible. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 12:59:44 PM
Age 45, AL
Of course I believe in Jesus Christ, my great God and Saviour! He is one. Jesus is His name. I was, of course, baptized in Jesus's name (as He and his disciples commanded, in Acts 2:38), and received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in other tongues. The Bible clearly states that God is "one Lord," There are none beside him. He is Alpha and Omega, and the One who is on the throne. I can direct you to many, many scriptures.
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By no means did Jesus teach that the Holy Ghost was another Person. Jesus said, "The Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, He shall teach you all things..." John 14:26. Again Jesus said, "...if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send Him unto you. John 16:7. Also John said, "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." John 14:18. Compare John 14:26 with John 16:7; Jesus spoke of the Father and Himself as ONE. Compare John 14:26 with John 14:18. Jesus spoke of the Holy Ghost and Himself as ONE. If the Father and Jesus are one, and Jesus and the Holy Ghost are one: then the Father, Jesus and Holy Spirit are ONE. (Also compare the following Scriptures which show that the Father, Jesus and the Holy Ghost are ONE: Matt. 10:20, Mark 13:11, Luke 21:15.)
A Trinitarion concept contends that the Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one in holiness, love, glory, wisdom and eternal power; but, three in Person. No Scripture can be found to support such a concept. Note the following:
His holiness (not their holiness) - Ps. 47:8
His love (not their love) - Ram. 5:8
My glory (not our glory) - Is. 42:8
The only wise God (not the wise three) - I Tim. 1:17
His eternal power (not their eternal power) - Rom. 1:20
The term persons (plural) used in reference to God does violence to the oneness of God. "I am the Lord.. .and my glory will I not give to another." Is. 42:8. The Bible proves that God is ONE IN PERSON. John declared, "...I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and ONE sat on the throne." Rev. 4:2.
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What I was applauding is the strong stand against the "purpose-less-driven" movement all weak assemblies seem to be panting hard after, choosing popularity contests over preaching to a fallen world. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 05:51:41 PM
Age 57, VA
Ps. and correction from 57 IN Virginia
" I meant to say " the reality of what we call the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost being THREE PERSONS IN ONE! When we speak of one we are speaking of all 3 PERSONS. It is a mystery. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/03/06 05:43:05 PM
Age 57, VA
In Matthew 28:19 JESUS said, go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the NAME OF THE FAHTER, AND THE SON AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. And in Act2: 38 Peter said, "Repent and let each of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins..." Why in the world would you choose to disregard the red-letter words of Jesus and choose to believe that the words of Peter superceeded Jesus'? Be careful, you might be easily deceived. You can't just pick one of those and discard the other. In fact, since they are both recorded, we can believe both are correct. Further more, the two scriptures leave us with an example of the reality of what we call the Trinity, the Father, Son and Holy Ghost being One! When we speak of one we are speaking of all of them. It is a mystery. I am sorry that you choose to cut Matthew 28:19 out of your Bible in order to support your false belief system. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/04/06 07:13:57 AM
Age 45, AL
I cut no Bible out of my faith. I do not disregard the book of Acts, either. Jesus said the NAME in Mat. 28:19 - singular, not Names, plural. Father Son and Holy Ghost are titles, not names. Jesus also said, I come in my Father's name. So Peter correctly fulfills what Jesus told them to do, in Acts 2:38. By the way, all the Word is Jesus. Please read Luke 10:16. The Holy Ghost speaks through Peter. It is not Peter who is speaking on his own. The Godhead is no mystery, praise God!
God Bless. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/15/06 10:59:27 PM
Age 62, TX
A heresy is a doctrinal position that conflicts with an orthodox doctrine. An orthodox doctrine is one formally accepted by one of the church councils. There is an assumption that orthodox doctrines are consistent with what is taught in the Bible.
(1). However, it is conceivable that a doctrine could be unbiblical and not be a heresy. An example would be the debate over falling from grace and the perseverance of the saints or once saved always saved. Logically, only one of these positions may be biblical, but neither contradicts a doctrine formally accepted by one of the church councils; therefore, since neither can be a heresy, one of them must be unbiblical but not a heresy.
(2). Conversely, a doctrine could be orthodox and be inconsistent to what the Bible teaches. An example of an orthodox doctrine that is inconsistent to what the Bible teaches would be Vatican II which declared that both Jews and Moslems were saved by their faith in the same God that Christians worship.
(3). Also, it is conceivable that a doctrine could be biblical and be a heresy.
There is also contention among different groups which of the church councils have authority. According to this understanding of heresy most disagreements among Christians should be about which position is biblical or unbiblical rather than calling the others position a heresy, but it is correct to call the oneness teaching of the nature of God a heresy. It is also appropriate to debate what the scriptures teach concerning either position. 4/15/06 gboyd smith@sbcglobal.net Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Azusa Street Hall of Shame
Posted On: 04/02/06 08:06:56 PM
Age 71, OH
I have belonged to AG as well as other char- ismatic churches. I believe many of the AG has apostasized and the "Word of Faith" churches have become hyper. I have seen many "ship-wrecked" lives. There is a Word of Truth in all of them, but so many have have become Bless Me Organizations. I will always adhere to the "Cross" in the believer's life. Alot of churches don't even know what that means, let alone preach it. I agree with Bob DeWaay on some issues, but to pre-judge the upcoming convention is wrong. I'm going to close now and cut Eph. 4:11 out of my Bible, since we don't need apostles or prophets. Get real! Click here to reply to this post
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