"Are you actually suggesting that these individuals, can soften their own hearts? Are you suggesting that they can take a small step of faith which will somehow open the doors to God's saving grace? I am confused. And if I am confused, I can guarantee you that they are confused. For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not of your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast. What is your message Ray? Does God supernaturally open the eyes and hearts of the unredeemed if they are somehow bright enough to see it, or is salvation a result of some special quality in a man that makes him superior to the ‘blind and ignorant atheist’ that God honors and therefore saves?” ForHisSake
Thanks for taking the time to share your concern. This is an issue with which I regularly wrestle--how do God's sovereign grace and man’s responsibility to turn to Him fit together? For example, Ezekiel 33:11 says, “'As I live,' says the Lord God, 'I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked, but that the wicked turn from his way and live. Turn, turn from your evil ways! For why should you die...?" God Himself tells the sinner to “turn” from his evil ways.
It is clear from Scripture that He gives us repentance (Acts 11:18; 2 Timothy 2:25), and He also gives us faith as a gift (Romans 12:3). But He then commands all men everywhere to repent and to have faith (believe). See Mark 1:15; Acts 17:30.
Also, James 4:8 addressees sinners directly telling them to draw near to God, cleanse their hands, and purify their hearts: “Draw near to God and He will draw near to you. Cleanse your hands, you sinners; and purify your hearts, you double-minded.” Jesus rebuked His disciples and called them "foolish" because they didn't believe (Mark 16:14; Luke 24:25).
Charles Spurgeon proclaimed divine sovereignty and yet he also preached man’s responsibility, although he admitted that he didn’t understand how they fit together. Look at his exhortations to the sinner: “Believe in Jesus, and though you are now in slippery places your feet shall soon be set upon a rock of safety.” He said, "Sinner, fly to Christ.” He addressed him directly with, “O sinner, humble yourself under the mighty hand of God . . .” And it is the sinner’s responsibility to trust in the Savior: “Trust Christ with your soul and He will save it. I know you will not do this unless the Holy Spirit constrains you, but this does not remove your responsibility.”
Here is a perceptive atheist who can see the result of believing the error that man has no responsibility to the demands of the gospel: “If ‘salvation’ is a ‘supernatural’ act of a ‘supernatural God,’ then evangelism would be superfluous, no? The good news is, you and Ray and all your Christian brethren may now knock off and hit the beach.”
The Armenian and Calvinist views are diametrically opposed to each other, yet believers on both sides point to a thousand scriptures to back their theology. If you choose one view or the other, don’t let your choice cut you off from others who may believe differently. The two opposing truths can walk together. All that’s missing is some information for them to harmonize. The day will come when we will understand everything (1 Corinthians 13:12), and it is then we will be so glad that we didn’t cause division by arguing about which one is right.
Sadly, church history has shown us that Christ-centered men of God have clashed over these issues (e.g., Wesley and Whitefield). More recently, I have seen brethren make a theological stand and much to their dismay, they were marked by their home church as “troublemakers.” Fine missionaries have been pulled from the field, pastors fired from the ministry, and churches have split, simply because of different views of God’s sovereignty.
So, if you do get it worked out, be careful that you strive to keep unity among the brethren, and then focus on your God-given commission. Firefighters exist to fight fires, not to fight each other. They must have unity of purpose.
Every moment that you and I spend arguing about theological interpretations is time we have lost forever, that could have been spent in prayer for the unsaved or in seeking to save that which is lost.
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Guidance by the holy spirit
Jesus told Father I've saved those you've given unto my hands except the one that's the son of perdition, Judas. He prayed I pray not only for these but those that believe testimony and witness of these.
The holy spirit came down upon Jesus like a dove and the Father witness of him this is my beloved son in whom I'm well pleased.Jesus fasted and prayed 40 days and nights in the wilderness resisting temptation. I believe the holy spirit led him forth and the Father showed him in prayer whom to speak to.
I had this old video tape from t.b.n. of peoples accounts of hell. One of the men tell of when they were a young child there daddy was a mean drunk and beat him and the only friend he had was a little lamb a neighbor had given. This little lamb followed him everywhere. One day while that boy was at school,the lamb wandered over to where the boy's daddy was drunk and working on car. His daddy took a wrench or two by four and crushed that lamb's skull. That little boy came home from school and saw his only friend beaten to death by his dad. Anger and rage came over him and his life became different. He became rebellious,drinker,and drug-user. He had bad marriage and son. His son saw him get in a fight in convience store and cut with a bottle and die. The man saw hell and didn't understand clearly, he was brought back his wife started reading scripture
and was saved.
He went to church one day and at that time something caught his stony heart and melted it more than anything on this earth he heard preacher said lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world.He understood his eyes where opened.
he went up to altar and prayed to die if he didn't change and receive this lamb.
Jesus knocks and calls at our hearts its up to us to open up. He calls us to follow him and chooses some of us to be his disciples serve him. We overcome by the blood of the lamb and the word of our testimony.
I received an email about celebrities
and others that heard and refused preacher went to Marilyn Monroe told her about Jesus. She said I don't need your Jesus a week later she was found dead. I watched a teen program and recorded it pastor told about Tu-Pac went to see Evander Holyfield boxing game went home with them eat lunch or dinner, Evander his wife told him you know whats right in life when you gonna get right with God live your life right he told them some day he was still having fun doing his own thing. Not much later he was shot and died. Jesus knocked at their lives through other people they didn't open up the door.How very very sad.
pray for others to be reached where no one will tell.Love your lil sis in Jesus Click here to reply to this post
Calvinism vs Armenianism vs God's Sovereignty
Posted On: 06/11/08 07:05:44 AM
Age 58, AR
I'm sorry Ray, I have to disagree with you on the point of unity above truth. Although this is not what you said directly, it was said. Unity is not the key. If we don't as a local church agree on God's sovereignty, or for that matter, any Christian who doesn't believe in the true Sovereignty of God, his belief is seriously flawed, as is the Armenian belief system. God's sovereignty is one of the main points of biblical doctrine that is necessary to be in the faith. I know we can struggle at certain points of teachings in our journey of faith, but if we do not come to the point of knowing God is sovereign in salvation, where do we draw the line? This is about keeping unity in the church, but who are you saying is stirring things up? Is it the one who believes in the Sovereignty of God in salvation or the one who does not? We don't have to fight about it, but absolutely stand on that truth and not give one inch. That's like saying that one can believe Jesus wasn't reserrected and be in the faith. God's sovereignty is that important in our belief system, that he does it all. Click here to reply to this post
WE ARE ONE WITH JESUS
Posted On: 06/11/08 05:53:24 PM
Age 64, OH
I think you have missed the point of what the Bible calls unity. We have to be all under the head of Jesus Christ. All that make Jesus Christ their Lord and follow His Holy Spirit are in unity. There is only ONE body OF The Lord Jesus and all that are in that body are in unity. This unity has NOTHING to do with us all believing the same doctrine. This unity is all important for those who want to be saved. If we are not in unity by having the Holy Spirit of the Lord Jesus we are NOT SAVED. What part of the nature of Jesus Christ is the most important. This is NOT the question of importance. But do we have Christ, is the important question. Any one who possess Jesus Christ has everything there is to possess and lacks not one thing as Paul says. If we have Jesus we are in unity with Him and all that do. Grace and peace to you dear friend. Lou Click here to reply to this post
We are one with Jesus
Posted On: 06/12/08 12:44:28 PM
Age 58, AR
No doubt, we are one with Christ, and we are one with all Christians (church). But today doctrine isn't as important as it used to be. We are in the post modern era where many "Christians" in the church don't believe the bible is relavent or literally true. I'm thinking I wouldn't be in complete unity with them. Click here to reply to this post
Missing the Point I think
Posted On: 06/11/08 12:17:35 PM
Age 40, NH
Brother,
I think you missed the point entirely by implementing a man-made definition of sovereignty onto the Scriptures. Is od sovereign? Absolutely! Does He allow man a certain amount of freedom? Absolutely! He (and Son) sne dthe Spirit to convict man of his sin and to open his eyes and gives the ability to make the decision BUT that does not mean that man having a measure of control in this situation negates God's sovereignty. Absolutely not! Sovereignty means having the power and control but does not require one to always exercise that power and control in all situations.
Grace and Peace,
Jim Click here to reply to this post
GRACE AND GRACE ALONE
Posted On: 06/10/08 11:04:49 PM
Age 64, OH
One of your better articles Ray, thanks. I look at it this way. 1st it is beyond my reasoning ability to understand the grace of God opposed to why am I saved and not all. 2nd I look at it as my constant desire to confess all my acts as sin and depend on his grace for my salvation. I am just to trust in Jesus to save me and confess my sin every day before Him and then trust Him to save me. 3rd- But none of this is to my credit. I have turned to the Lord by His grace. I have repented by His grace. I am compelled to love Him by His grace. I study the scriptures by His grace. I tell others about Him by His grace. 4th every sin is my fault and any service to Him is to the credit of His grace. - I put all my hope in Jesus and none in my self and I have come to that decision by His grace and grace alone. Lou Click here to reply to this post