How do you discuss Hell and Heaven and ‘counting the cost’ of discipleship Without Scare Tactics?
Posted: 04/17/2008
How do you discuss Hell and Heaven and ‘counting the cost’ of discipleship With Scare Tactics?
"How do you discuss Hell and Heaven and ‘counting the cost’ of discipleship in bold, honest, loving truth...yet not use Heaven as a draw card or reward...and not use Hell as a scare tactic. I don't want to have people leaping to Jesus just so they don't get burned, it's not really any different then leaping to Jesus so they'll have a better life is it (humanism -- or the end of being is the happiness of man)? Wouldn't that more than likely create as many false converts?”
Think of story Jesus told of the Prodigal Son (see Luke 15:11-32). The father had great pleasure when the son came into a right relationship with him. He cried, “Father, I have sinned against Heaven and in your sight, and am no more worthy to be called your son.” Obviously, his father would not have rejoiced in the same way if a happy and impenitent son had returned with a prostitute on each arm. It was his humble turning from his sinful lifestyle that pleased the father (see verse 22). The son’s happiness was irrelevant at that point of time. Righteousness was the issue.
Humanism has no concern for righteousness. Its chief goal is the prodigal’s happiness, whether he’s in or out of the pigsty.
Christianity’s goal is absolute righteousness, which we are told in Scripture will ultimately result in the glory of God and the pleasure of man. That’s why we must always focus on man’s depravity (revealed by the moral Law) and God’s righteousness (revealed in His Law and in the cross--see Romans 1:16-17). The gap between depravity and holiness will reveal the need for righteousness. Happiness is not the issue at hand. It is irrelevant to the gospel proclamation, even though (because of God’s kindness) it is ultimately the end result.
However, we need never feel any sense of guilt because we responded to the gospel with a desire to live. It was self-preservation that helped to motivate the prodigal to get up out of that pigsty (“I perish with hunger”--Luke 15:17), and every sane human being has also been given an instinct for self-preservation. We have been endowed by our Creator with the good sense to know that life is better than death, and that Heaven is better than Hell. We came to Christ because of a hunger and a thirst for righteousness, and the ultimate end of righteousness will be pleasure forevermore, to the glory of God.
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My mom has this old church book from the time of her grandparents they have obituary of members that pass on there was always an admonition to turn away from sin and the world and follow the Lord Jesus there was stories of them seeing angels or loved ones as they passed on. Momma told me of an old man crying out his feet was on fire as he was dying entering hell he cried out to his children to do right don't go where he was going.
No idolaters,no fornicators,no adulterers,no liars,thieves,murderers,no effimate(homosexuals), no reveller(party-goers)(drunkards),no (swindlers) people that use false weights charge high interest cheat the poor people can enter the kingdom of heaven.
Now think how many of these people we have today How many sons,daughers,cousins,uncles,aunts,friends,
aquaintances,grandchildren,and grandparents,coworkers do we have that are like that?do we have a burden in our hearts and souls for them?For its a gruesome awful place.We are held accountable to warning them.
A story I read vision of hell saw people in hell half side of their face so beautiful dressing fancy holding a mirror the other side of them was gruesome and hideous. Their own vanity pride was their god. How many worldly modelling acting beauty industry are bound.Do we feel a sadness for them. He Saw sex-addicted people writhing around in pain internal longing, women with aborted fetus shapes dragging behind them. Preachers feeding upon coin shaped dung being worshipped controlled by Satan. Scholarly people in racing cycles the minds never resting. People bound by material junk restless.Whatever idols you worshipped on this earth. If you ever see a glimpse of that place it'll haunt you and fill you with such urgency and compassion for the froward and lost. Their hurt feelings on this earth don't matter none. The eternal numbers are increasing and massive.
Some we are supposed to point to sin,repentance,salvation in Jesus and being born again in your face getting their attention cause their ears are deaf, their eyes are blind,their hearts are cold hard-hearted. We should be hating the very stained clothes upon them but loving them.
Some we point out lovinglly, mercily,their wrong ways and wrong turns point them back to their saviour.
How far gone are they? How hard are their hearts?
Jesus and John spoke differently and the same to the Pharisees,scribes then to the lost sheep calling some vipers,foxes turn from your sin. John told Herod plainly stop fooling around with your brothers wife. Some sheep they said sin no more come follow me. Remember the parable of the seed sown. Their is much opposition to the seed.Stony hard grounds,birds of the air,thorns and weeds. Dig deep,weed it out and transplant it if you have to.
BE WISE like serpents BE GENTLE like doves. Click here to reply to this post
Ray, you have written a very thought provoking article. I agree it was depravity that turned me to God ( though really it was the grace of God ). But it is the fact that I seen that Jesus loves me, by His death on the cross, and I want His help in returning such a love to Him, that keeps me pursuing The Lord Jesus Christ; not the pursuit of righteousness. The only reason I even want to be righteous is that would mean that I would stop being unfaithful to Him. It is love not righteousness that makes this whole thing work. Lou Click here to reply to this post
LOVE or Righteousness?
Posted On: 04/19/08 12:52:55 PM
Age 35, CO
Although I agree with Lou about the Love part, I do also understand that when talking to the lost you cannot use Love as the drawing card because their understanding of love is skewed. As a believer though, I totally understand what Lou is saying. Furthermore why would there be a need for repentance if it was only about love (if you could come to Christ in Love but unwanting to repent from unrighteousness). Repentance addresses the issue of righteousness or our admission of lacking said righteousness. Once we see God's love demonstrated to us unrighteous beings our response should be one of Loving Him back by living righteous. Grace truly is amazing. Click here to reply to this post
JOHN PREPARED THE WAY
Posted On: 04/20/08 04:57:25 PM
Age 64, OH
Thanks for your kind reply. I did not say we should preach only love to the lost. We need to preach the law as John did to prepare the way for Jesus. I only said that I am not drawn by the desire to be righteous but I am drawn to Jesus by the way He loves me and I desire to return that love. However I am unable to return that love; but Jesus in His great mercy and grace even helps me to act as I do love Him when I walk in His Holy Spirit. Lou Click here to reply to this post
Grace only to those humbled...
Posted On: 04/21/08 12:10:11 PM
Age 45, NJ
I think Lou agrees with you, Colorado, that Grace can only be given to the humble.
It is one of the seeming quandaries of evangelism that we desire so for the hearer to see the Truth that Yahweh loves them that we cannot withhold the truth about the Just Wrath of that same loving God over their sins. We MUST be clear we must be wound to heal. We cannot lie to them. And we certainly cannot set the Gracious Mercy of God, His priceless Pearl, before those who would piggishly trample His love for them in their self aggrandizement. Those who do not love the Truth will not be ABLE to hear of His Love for them.
Ray, I think it is not at all a scare tactic to speak the truth, as you have said before. Speaking of Hell to the Lost is only a scare tactic if it isn't true.
If the DMV can use smashing cars and gut-wrenching films of the results of drivers not using their seat belts to drive home the point that it's for their safety to use seat belts, then Hell is a perfectly good tool to show a sinner His need. After all, what kind of monster would I be if I didn't warn you of what I know is a very real Hell?
Remember: The FEAR of Yahweh is the Beginning of wisdom.
So what does God say you should begin with?
The real Fear of Hell that Yahweh will sentence you to as your just reward for lies, stealing, lusting...
BUT, once a person mouth stops, once they stop justifying themselves, THEN you can gladly tell them of Yahweh LOVE for them in the Blood of Jesus shed for them.
But MAKE NO MISTAKE, you tell someone of God's grace BEFORE they are humble then you can be sure you have made them a doubly damned son of Hell, they will spurn Holiness and reject righteous instruction, to the destruction of their immortal soul.
"Gentle as doves"? Be as genteel as Jesus is then and speak of Hell FIRST and be sure they agree with God over their sin before you continue...
Better to walk away leaving a sinner wrestling with his now Biblically informed conscience than make another false convert bound for Hellfire.
Patrick J Burwell / Only Jesus Saves Click here to reply to this post
WE ARE CALLED THE "BODY" OF JESUS CHRIST
Posted On: 04/22/08 11:59:07 AM
Age 64, OH
We are called the BODY of Jesus Christ for a reason. We have His Holy Spirit in our heart and we are to take that Holy Spirit around the world. We are nothing but legs to carry the Holy Spirit. We are but a speech mechanism to speak the words He gives us. We are nothing but a pair of hands He can use to care for others. We are nothing but a BODY so to speak and He is all else. We are to hear His thoughts and learn to know His thoughts. We are to go wherever He tells us to go and not where we think. We are to do whatever he tells us to do. We are to speak whatever words he tells us to speak. We are to be like Jesus who said he did EVERYTHING the Father told Him to do and He did NOTHING that the Father did not tell Him to do. We read the scriptures, pray, and worship Him to learn and come to know Him so that we will know His voice when He does speak to us. May the mercy, grace and peace of Jesus be with you all. Lou Click here to reply to this post
GRACE TO THE HUMBLE
Posted On: 04/22/08 11:47:15 AM
Age 64, OH
You are exactly correct Patrick. Grace can only be given to someone who has humbled themselves before God. That is why the world is so lost, because they refuse to humble themselves before God. Of course in another way of speaking, God gives grace to the whole world continually. It rains on the just and the unjust. God shows some grace to the entire world every second of every day; He does that by even allowing them to draw breath. Click here to reply to this post