I, personally, don’t believe it needs to be, but Robert Schuller and friends spent a few days in late January planning how to do it.On my February 9 radio program, “Understanding the Times,” Roger Oakland reported on the event as he was able to attend. He stated that the prominent view from most in attendance was that Christianity as we have known it has run its course and must change. It must be re-invented or it won’t survive.Really?
As Oakland said, focusing on a relationship and not religiosity is what is important; however, true Christianity has survived just about everything including mass slaughter in Sudan. But the faith isn’t being made stronger by such events as Schuller’s “Re-Think” last month. Christianity and the church need not “re-think” and compromise their God-given biblical doctrines to accommodate the world and churches with “straying” theology.
The Schuller “Re-Think” event was co-hosted by Emergent leader Erwin McManus. Many Christian and secular leaders were invited, and it begs the question, Why are secular people speaking about “re-inventing Christianity?”
Perhaps it cannot be determined if all in attendance or invited were in agreement with this event. Roger Oakland reported that most seemed to be receiving all the information positively. Several pulled out and did not show.
Just a few of the participants included Emergent Dan Kimball, Larry King, Gary Smalley, George Barna, Lee Strobel, Kay Warren (wife of Rick), George H.W. Bush, Rupert Murdoch, Henry Cloud, and of course, co-host Erwin McManus.
Roger Oakland states, “I hope and pray that Erwin McManus, Robert Schuller, and others will ‘re-think’ the direction in which they are heading. I pray they will start proclaiming the gospel according to the Scriptures. I pray they will begin to warn about the many unbiblical ideas that are driving the unsuspecting toward an apostate church. The potential for Christians to be led astray by a strong delusion as Paul warned in II Thessalonians is not only a real possibility—it is happening now.”
The overall view at “Re-Think” was that Christianity as we have known it has run its course and must be replaced or re-invented. We’re seeing a paradigm shift. Speakers insisted that Christianity must be re-thought and re-invented if the Name of Jesus Christ is going to survive here on planet earth now that we are in the 21st century.Jesus Christ needs no foot soldiers to keep His Name alive, His message alive, His purpose alive, and the church alive!The pompous nature of this event defies credulity.
New ways of doing church need not replace “that old-time religion.” The gospel message has never changed over thousands of years! Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today, and forever (Hebrews 13:8).“Re-think” participants should “re-think” themselves, and those who are believers should just stick to preaching a solid gospel rather than trying to re-invent something God never intended to change to “keep up with the culture.”
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When ever there is a move of the Holy Spirt, the cheif imposters puts his "men" is key positions to muddy, confuse and coral the movement. For examples of men stopping these moves look at the Reformation and the Jesus Movement which have been usurped by and controlled by these elite men. Today, many people are being called out the dead institutional system church to a simple gathering format, however the Devil has his people in the front trying to redirect these sheep to a poisonous direction. Run from any movement but be led by the Spirit.....it will be lonley! Click here to reply to this post
Schuller and the rest
Posted On: 02/17/08 08:23:40 AM
Age 53, WI
This sounds like yet another attempt to change God. I always hear people say that religion needs to get into the 21st century, the people and culture have changed, which implies that God must also change.
I say to them "just because people and society have 'changed' doesn't mean that God does." They seem to not grasp that concept and by not grasping puts them at grave peril if they don't return to Jesus as their personal savior and recognize that there is just one God who created everything. He is not nor will He never be changed. Click here to reply to this post
Bible Reading
Posted On: 02/15/08 02:52:48 AM
Age 83, TX
Oh that more of us would be wounded and hurt, enough to change our ways. Is it because we do not want to change our ways that we want to re-invent? Most of us don't need new ways of thinking and doing - that is until we can get the Lord Jesus Christ's ways of being and doing. I have come to believe that we in America have so much (even the poorest of us)and are too concentrated on "self." Until we get the directions from the Bible down deep into our hearts and "work out" from there, we have no reason to "change/re-invent." Click here to reply to this post
Indeed
Posted On: 02/17/08 09:39:27 AM
Age 47, MO
Sir: at your age you would truly know want vs need better than most of us. Having traveled to 26 countries I also understand the difference, I have seen people living in caves, starvation, lack of clean water, ragged shoes, no hope, and no warmth. Sadly, I'm not talking about Sub- Sarrahan Africa but Arab countries like Turkey, Egypt, and Morraco where they are ruled externally. In the USA, we are currently ruled internally by self. So here it's win at all costs and a good life is owed regardless of cost. Lock your car doors and drive into the inner city, you will find satelite dishes in the poorest neighborhoods, Nike shoes and bling on the thugs, and attitudes of selfrightousness. Or, just turn on the TV and watch some of the reality shows and commercials- the reality is that self is encouraged and glorified. America CANNOT survive ruled by self, it will result in anarchy or despotism, there is NO other choice. America is not in prophecy because America is not. John Click here to reply to this post
ARROGANCE
Posted On: 02/14/08 12:44:47 AM
Age 64, OH
WHAT KIND OF FOOL WOULD CLAIM TO SET OUT TO REDO SOMETHING THAT HE CLAIMS JESUS CHRIST HAS FAILED AT (by his thinking). Are they saying that they can succeed where they claim Jesus has failed. Why do people concern themselves with such fools as this. Lou Click here to reply to this post
re-think
Posted On: 02/14/08 03:07:37 PM
Age 26, NC
I'd like to start with the admission that I am not familiar with what was said at this particular conference, thus I cannot comment specifically on the content of this "re-think" event. However, the article itself seems to skirt the issue of exactly what was being re-thought. Instead, it seems to just hint at a general distaste to re-thinking anything. The article is correct in stating that the gospel message has not changed in a couple of thousand years and should never be changed or compromised. However, the statement, "new ways of doing church need not replace that old-time religion," seems naive to me. The way we currently "do church" is largely dictated by extra-biblical tradition and has certainly changed drastically and consistently over the last couple thousand years. It is drastically different now than it was in the first century. And it drastically different in China, than it is in Africa, than it is in the states, etc. Anyway, though the particulars of what they are re-thinking may be un-biblical and inappropriate, the idea of re-thinking certain aspects of Christianity should not be deterred. The Reformation itself was re-thinking of the way Christianity ought to be. It was an attempt to realign the way Christianity was practiced with biblical principles. Just because something is done a particular way doesn't make it right. Change should be considered as long it a reclamation of biblical Christianity and not a reinvention of it. Click here to reply to this post
WINE BECOMES WINE WHEN IT IS POURED OUT
Posted On: 02/15/08 04:17:05 PM
Age 64, OH
As to Schuller, if I am honest I would not cross the street to hear him preach and my comments were concerning him and others who talk about religion but do NOT preach the gospel. But even Schuller can see something is wrong in the church. The whole system is set up NOT on scripture but the traditions of men. i have been to church after church and seen NO life or very little life in any place. The Holy Spirit speaks through Paul and tells us how to run our worship service but those who claim so much devotion to scripture will NOT do as the scripture says. 1 Cor 14Orderly Worship
26What then shall we say, brothers? When you come together, EVERYONE has a hymn, or a word of instruction, a revelation, a tongue or an interpretation. ALL THESE MUST BE DONE for the strengthening of the church. 27If anyone speaks in a tongue, two—or at the most three—should speak, one at a time, and someone must interpret. 28If there is no interpreter, the speaker should keep quiet in the church and speak to himself and God.
29TWO or THREE prophets should speak, and the others should weigh carefully what is said. 30And if a revelation comes to someone who is sitting down, the first speaker should stop. 31For you can all prophesy in turn so that everyone may be instructed and encouraged. 32The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. 33For God is not a God of disorder but of peace.
As in all the congregations of the saints, 34women should remain silent in the churches. They are not allowed to speak, but must be in submission, as the Law says. 35If they want to inquire about something, they should ask their own husbands at home; for it is disgraceful for a woman to speak in the church.
36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.[i]
39Therefore, my brothers, be eager to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues. 40But everything should be done in a fitting and orderly way.-- Do you know of any church that runs their worship service this way or is it a ONE MAN SHOW.-- People do not get life by listening to one man but THE WINE BECAME WINE WHEN IT WAS POURED OUT.- The leaders simply do not trust God to bring this about. Lou Click here to reply to this post
Re-think
Posted On: 02/13/08 09:42:20 PM
Age 49, CA
It is interesting to read comments from people who were not at the Re-think conference. I was there, and while I do not agree with the viewpoints of all the speakers, I think that to say that the conference was to change christianity is a false understanding. The "Rethink" that I came away with is that the church is not reaching the people who need Jesus, and what can be changed in 'church' in order to save more souls. Was there some off the wall comments? yes, but there was also many very solid biblical presentations, and the gospel message was given clearly by several. Click here to reply to this post
JESUS MADE HIMSELF NOTHING
Posted On: 02/14/08 03:06:09 PM
Age 64, OH
All I know is that I have never heard Schuller preach the true gospel even once. His messages are all humanistic and NOT the gospel. Like his sermon about big potatoes rise to the top. Jesus was not concerned about rising to the top but even though he was God considered Himself NOTHING and died a criminals death. I would not set foot in Schullers church anymore than a JW or Mormon church. Lou Click here to reply to this post
change to meet the culture?
Posted On: 02/13/08 08:26:29 PM
Age 47, FL
There are some pretty funny comments in here. Comments about legalism and making sure that The Faith is compatible with today's culture. Funny thing is, I could be dropped tight into New Testament times and get along just fine, as could you, and you..you too.
The truth doesn't change. But satan never stops trying. Click here to reply to this post
Schuller
Posted On: 02/13/08 04:22:47 PM
Age 40, CA
Nothing in Christendom surprises me anymore -- especially when I read about Schuller's actions and/or statements. Let's just thank God for not allowing us to accept his teachings. Click here to reply to this post
Reinvent form, but keep essential truth - Jan misses that mark (ell)
Posted On: 02/13/08 02:50:35 PM
Age 57, MN
I like Jan Markell's insightful commentary, but sometimes it is "inciteful" instead.
This is an example.
Jan seems to equate reinvention of forms with reinvention of essential principles.
That belief tiptoes dangerously close to legalism, which is something that is easy to do and I am sure Jan would not want to do.
Schuller and others may well be trying to reinvent the essential principles, but you can't tell that from what Jan says in her commentary. I'd look a lot closer.
The forms of the "old time religion," hurt and wounded a lot of people who were subject to its legalistic adherance to external behaviors instead of eternal principles and relationship with Christ.
I'm not abandoning orthodoxy, but I will jettison anything that smacks of legalism. Click here to reply to this post
Laodiceans
Posted On: 02/13/08 09:01:49 PM
Age 39, OK
As we come to the end time - the separation of the tares from the wheat, the goats from the sheep and the Laodiceans from the Philadelphians we are told to hold fast that which we have that no man take our crown. John Danforth, Humanist Episcipalian priest. wrote a book "Faith and Politics". He has "re-thought" Christianity, and now considers "stem cell research, abortion, gay marriage and Christian displays in public as issues of LITTLE importance except as wedge issues used by the Christian "right" to divide the country. He speaks of the Parable of the Pharasee and the Tax collector (portraying the Christian Right as the Pharasee, of course) The end of the parable says: for all who exalt themselves will be humbled, but all who humble themselves will be exalted..Lk 18. I must say his book doesn't indicate any degree of humility about Rev. Danforth -He has taken issues of Morality and scripture and used God's word to divide us, and remove our rightousness..The re-thinkers should remember: "Woe unto them that call evil good and good evil;that put darkness for light and light for darkness, bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter: Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight..which justify the wicked...and TAKE AWAY THE RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE RIGHTEOUS FROM HIM. Isaiah 5:20,21,23,24.
We must be sure that no one takes us captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on HUMAN tradition rather than on Christ..Col.2:8 Click here to reply to this post
A new Reformation?
Posted On: 02/13/08 02:02:47 PM
Age 50, MN
What was the reformation? I think it was re-thinking Christianity and it was fought against by the established catholic church as much as the established conservative writers here are now. I think American Christianity has strayed far and in fact DOES need rethinking. Click here to reply to this post
REFORM - MEANS BACK TO THE ORIGINAL
Posted On: 02/14/08 02:56:54 PM
Age 64, OH
The reformation was NOT rethinking the scriptures but getting back to the scriptures which the catholic church had abandoned. the catholic church was selling indulgences for people to get their loved ones into heaven. Luther tried to take the church back to being saved by grace and not works. These men now are preaching another gospel which is not the Gospel of Jesus Christ at all. No one will be saved without repenting of their sins and then giving their life totally tot he Lord Jesus Christ. Lou Click here to reply to this post
Reformation rethinking?
Posted On: 02/14/08 06:18:59 AM
Age 57, AR
It depends on who the one is doing the rethinking. Is it a liberal who thinks a person can be a Christian by good works, and doesn't believe in the main doctrines of the bible? I don't think I want to do church the way liberals do it. They are rethinking with a strong influencial following. We really should be strong and do what is right, not what sounds easy because of humanistic thinking. If we stay with the fundementals of scripture, the doctrine of God, we will be persecuted, but will please God. Let's keep our heads on straight. Be strong in the Lord!! Click here to reply to this post
Missing the Point
Posted On: 02/13/08 01:43:49 PM
Age 30, OH
I really think that everyone is missing the point. The Church is an ever changing entity. It must be re-invented to change with culture so that it the Message may be preached in a way that is understood by the culture. You do not approach someone who is from China and expect them to understand English? The Church must undergo a changing to reach the masses. Click here to reply to this post
Mars Hill
Posted On: 07/11/08 11:24:31 PM
Age 53, WA
The re-thinkers who desire to reach the post modern culture like to use the Mars Hill lecture of the Apostle Paul. Paul couldn't present the gospel from the scriptures like was his custom in the syagogues, he had to speak to them about the "unknown God" of their culture and build from creation. You know the rest. All things to all people so he can win some to Christ. The end of the story is that no church was started in Athens and Paul never returned there. It is a very difficult task to preach the gospel to folks who think they are intellectuals and have no understanding of the scriptures. My opinion is that the time of the Gentiles is about over and we should be looking up, people. Click here to reply to this post
Huh?
Posted On: 02/14/08 05:11:06 PM
Age 47, MO
You're young. I don't think you understood what you wrote. You said: "you don't approach someone from China and expect them to understand English." Ok, so we use a different language but does that change the message? If so, then I'm in trouble because my Bible is in English and I don't read Greek. Besides that, we are ONLY the vessel to deliver the message, if we jack with the message we are apostate or worse; anti-Christ. John Click here to reply to this post
JESUS NEVERS CHANGES
Posted On: 02/14/08 02:48:46 PM
Age 64, OH
We can believe your opinion or believe what God says. God says that He never changes and so we know that he does not. Jesus is God and the head of the church. If the head never changes then it is obvious to me that what Jesus commands the church to be has NOT CHANGED IN ALL OF TIME. Yes the church needs to change, for it needs to follow the Lord Jesus Christ and not men who preach something other than what Jesus told us to do. The church needs to change and stop listening to men that preach ANOTHER GOSPEL. Lou Click here to reply to this post
