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The Gay “Christian.”



Posted: 01/31/2008

The Gay “Christian.”

People often ask how to respond to those who are homosexuals, and yet consider themselves to be Christians. While a fornicator, a homosexual, an adulterer, a thief, and liar can become a Christian, it is important to understand that they cannot remain in their sins. If someone does, he is simply a pretender (a hypocrite). To be a Christian, you must stop your sinful lifestyle, commonly called "repentance."

So, how do you tell someone that, without causing undue offense? I would witness to him using God’s Law (the Ten Commandments). I wouldn't mention the homosexual issue until he is humbled, and sin is seen in its true light. There's a very good reason for this. No proud person can see the nature of his own sins. He is blinded by pride. If you have done marriage counselling, you will know this to be true. If there is no humility, there won't be an open ear to reason. So the Law should be used to humble the human heart, show sin in its true light, and hopefully show the person his error, and his great danger.

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Reader Feedback

Homosexualtiy.....
Posted On: 02/06/08 08:46:23 AM Age 38, SC
As an EX homosexual, and let me state believing it was from birth, and now a new creature in Christ I can difinitively state without reservation that homosexuality is a perverse lie from satan, but willfully executed by the sinner. God showed me how I got into it, why I got into it, and gave me a way of escape...the choice was mine to make.
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logic!
Posted On: 02/05/08 03:14:40 PM Age 21, OH
Dan, perhaps your arguments have been good in the past but the one you just made isn't even an argument imo. the classical form of an argument: X is (or is not) a Y because it has (or does not have) features A, B, C, and so on. your first mistake is Ad Hominem (attacking the person rather than the argument). you say Lou is a weak trolling Christian as a claim to say his argument is false. secondly you appeal to belief and tradition. you say "You stand, in a minority position, against 2000 yrs of settled, orthodox Christian doctrine" as an argument for his argument being false. that's not a valid argument! the number of ppl that believe (or not believe) in an argument is not a measure of the arguments validity (remember at one time the majority of ppl believed the earth is flat and the center of the universe, etc). Dan, please realize that it's nothing against you in particular. it just bugs me to no end to see people make invalid argument after invalid argument and then stand in them arrogantly as if they had just had some epiphany of truth to the world. thank you for you time. ~Isaac~
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  1. Man's Logic or "Guided logic", Isaiah 1:18
    Posted On: 02/10/08 07:54:15 PMAge 60, OR
    Sorry, my bookmark was set to pg2 so I didn't see that you had posted at the top, but thanx anyway Isaac, because I had forgotten about combining words out of context, reading things out of what was NOT said, “catching on words” instead of concepts, and putting words in my mouth, -in my list to Lou: “all of your non-answers, rabbit trails & fantasy interpretations”. I did not say that: “Lou is a weak, trolling Christian”. I said: “I had a decision to make [and because I have already made all the long, unanswered arguments in the link listed above and don’t wish to waste more time], I simply gave 2 options. Give me 1 or 2 more; and it likely won’t change my *statement*, not “claim”. Further, even your erroneously combined statement does not make me “claim to say his argument is false”. I don’t find the word “false” in my post, so you must be reading that by some implication; one of maybe many possible meanings… As to your 2nd argument, your dad has tried that argument on me before. If you go back to my previous responses to him you will see that I hold natural revelation to a much lower level than he. The world, as you noted, misinterprets the natural and then holds it up as an indictment against the revealed Word. You will see [No Reason... Posted On: 07/04/07 11:46:14 AM, article.php/2145] that I hold the spirit of the revealed Word of God at the highest level; that God has progressively revealed Himself to us in each new book of the “Bible”, most positively and authoritatively in the Person of Jesus as Hebrews declares, and finally, in the NT, the most complete, “expositive” revelation until the “Canon” was closed, fixed, and “was ONCE delivered unto the saints” at the end of John’s Revelation. Additionally, you will find I believe in the progressive revelation of the *spiritual truths* that are hidden in the Word and revealed *to His Saints* [From “No Reason…”: “the majority of Christian doctrine is ‘hidden’; “ here a little, there a little”. Proverbs 25:2 It is the glory of Elohyim to conceal a thing [matter]: but the honor of kings is to search [dig] out a matter. Psalm 25:14 The secret of YeHoVaH is with them that fear him; and he will show them his covenant. Amos 3:7 Surely the Sovereign YeHoVaH will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets]. Further, I emphatically deny ANY *new* word or book of so-called “scripture”, or any “revelation” or “teaching” that in any way contradicts or distorts what has been revealed and sealed in the “Canon” of Scripture [Rev. 22:18-19]. That being said, when I look at 2000 yrs of progressive revelation, I don’t give a ‘squat’ what “ancient creeds” say that may have ‘kicked it off’ [including the Athanasian Creed that both you and your dad have ref’d before] in ‘human’ attempts to ‘confirm’ His revelation, I look at the end-time result, whereby the Spirit of Truth has guided His Beloved into all Truth, and I see nothing in Evangelical, Fundamentalist Christianity that even remotely denies the “Trinity”! The product at the end of 2000 yrs is that you can always read Dr. Martin’s classic “The Kingdom of the Cults” to find which are in “The Minority Report”… Continuing in your 2nd , and contrary to your assertions as before, there was no “claim” of “his argument being false”; there are other options; Confused, searching, speaking w/o understanding, etc., or on the negative side; false, deceptive, etc… What’s in your mind that you pick the most negative?… Also, I would like to know: What is it with you that makes so much confusion out of what I plainly said? BTW, JOOC, what *statement* did I make that you *claim* -“isn't even an argument imo. the classical form of an argument”? Also, recheck the definition of Ad Hominem, as I did not attack the “character” of Lou, but instead, his actions and the weakness of his “arguments” -“against the Trinity”. I conclude that I fully concur with you on your closing statement. Love in the GN of Jesus, Dan RN.
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Repentance: Cause or Result?
Posted On: 02/04/08 11:49:42 AM Age 40, CA
The dictionary definition of repentance is: 1)Deep sorrow, compunction, or contrition for a past sin, wrongdoing, or the like. And, 2)Regret for any past action. The Biblical definition of repentance is: to turn away from a life that is controlled by sin -- to make a 180 degree turn and continue walking in the opposite direction. But is that righteous act able to give you spiritual life and save you from Hell? The answer lies in Titus 3:4-5, "But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit," When Jesus said, that a bad tree cannot produce good fruit and a good tree cannot produce bad fruit, He was stating that good works are a result of salvation. James said the exact same thing: genuine faith ---- the faith that is able to save you and that was given freely to you (Eph 2:8) ---- WILL produce good works. Dead faith (our human faith, e.g. faith in a pilot prior to boarding an airplane) will not save us because it is not from God. Saving faith comes from God, repentance comes from God also (2 Tim 2:24-26, "And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful. Those who oppose him he must gently instruct, in the hope that GOD WILL GRANT THEM REPENTANCE leading them to a knowledge of the truth, and that they will come to their senses and escape from the trap of the devil, who has taken them captive to do his will." Repentance is a result of the life of the spirit (the nature of Christ) that given to you on the day of your spiritual birth. Your reaction to repent was based on the conviction of the Holy Spirit that was in you. After, Romans 8:7 clearly states that without the mind of Christ we are enemies of God, we not only refuse to submit to Him -- we cannot. If you are a Christian, you will repent. If not, like Paul suggests in 2 Cor 13:5, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?"
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Simply put...
Posted On: 02/02/08 06:15:12 PM Age 64, OR
If "gays" are Christian then God's Word is a lie.
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We are all sinners
Posted On: 02/01/08 09:08:03 PM Age 49, MI
Homosexuality may be a learned response...or it may be genetic. It does not matter. Homosexual thoughts and behavior are sinful. Scripture clearly establishes this point. Divorce, infidelity, lying, stealing, self-righteousness and many other behaviors are likewise sinful. Let us also remember that disease and difficulties are the product of our fallen world. But we are to live now, in knowledge of our eternal gift. We are to thankful make efforts to grasp for our continued sanctification that has already been promised to us through grace. So whether we are dying of cancer, divorced, homosexual or merely self-righteous, we are to embrace Christ's gift of life and to live now for His glory, having compassion and love for our brothers and sisters who also struggle. We must recognize our own sin and turn from it. We must speak truthfully but compassionately to those likewise in sin...and we must help them...not judge them.
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  1. THE SHAME OF IT ALL
    Posted On: 02/02/08 07:36:09 AMAge 64, OH
    The thing that is so disgusting about the current homosexual movement in the world, is that they deny that homosexuality is a sin. Almost any sin can be forgiven if the person confesses their sin. But the homosexuals are teaching and justifying that it is not sin. This puts the homosexual in a position that they can not be helped from unless they change their position. And it also puts countless others in the position of saying sin is not sin which of course is a sin. This is what is so disgusting about the movement. They do not have the slightest care if they take the whole world to hell with them as long as they can feel better about satisfying their sexual lust. They will do anything to try and rid themselves of the SHAME that comes from doing what they are doing. If they get the whole world to agree with them they will not rid themselves of the SHAME. How could any human being participate in oral anal sex and not feel shame. Lou
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    1. ES and love don't build faith
      Posted On: 02/04/08 09:36:09 AMAge 47, MO
      Yes lou, the normalicy of sin and the complatency of Christians are panademic. It is because of Christian apathy, worldly faith, milk toast fence riders that the church has become, that has enboldened the forces of evil. Are fight is truly Spiritual because all evil starts in the heart to disobey God by deed or denial. Those who don't know God have sinful deeds steming from their denial of God. Those who know God have a form of Godliness but deny the power to be bold and convicted. This is why their sins are our burden yet the Christian church is not much different from the world, chasing self gratification. Therfore, our sin is worse yet pastors preach ES and love as the gospel message. The truth is security makes you fat and lazy, want makes you lean and hungry. John
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      1. ES and Love
        Posted On: 02/04/08 04:42:31 PMAge 40, CA
        God, Jesus, and the HS are Love. Jesus Christ is Love personified. A church founded on the rock (Jesus Christ) is founded on love. From love comes every other good thing from God, including ES. My church is flourishing (fruit of the Spirit type stuff) and growing in numbers due to the light of the Spirit in our flock, and evangelism. All this in a church building that was a gift from God (we don't pay rent). I teach the whole Bible, which includes ES and Love. I hope you're not thinking about excluding such beautiful truths to avoid supposedly causing your flock to become obese and overweight. And by the way, this would only happen if they received a whole bunch of half-truths. Just wondering and hoping you don't fall into a snare called sensationalistic, merit-seeking, hype-dependent self-righteous legalism.
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        1. God is I AM
          Posted On: 02/05/08 12:56:42 AMAge 47, MO
          I think you and I have gone a round or two in the past, so no need to light it up again with ES. Follow the Spirit's leading, defend your theologies any way you wish, as for me and my house- Christ only. No friend, God is not love, God is holy. Here is an observation from A.W. Tozer; The apostle John, by the Spirit wrote, “God is love” and you have taken his words to be a definitive statement concerning the essential nature of God. This is a great error. John was by those words stating a fact, but he was not offering a definition. Equating love with God is a major mistake which has produced much unsound religious philosophy. Had the apostle declared that love is what God is, we would be forced to infer that God is what love is. If literally God is love, then literally love is God, and we are in all duty bound to worship love as the only God there is. If this is so then we destroy all the personal attributes of God save one, and that one we substitute for God. John
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          1. Legalism blinds and causes deafness
            Posted On: 02/06/08 04:44:15 PMAge 40, CA
            Dear brother: You wrote, in reference to your theology, "as for me and my house -- Christ only." CHRIST ONLY? Yet you quote A.W. Tozer as if his word was above God's. No my friend, I don't listen to Tozer, I listen to God's Word only. You're funny. You failed to understand my comment because you are blinded and deafened by self-righteous legalism, so I am not offended by your rebuttal. I have compassion for you. Brother, fear not, God is not holding a bat over your head, waiting for you to sin. When you sin, yes, you will pay a consequence, and the degree to which you will be punished will be determined by the amount of knowledge you possess (Luke 12:47-48). But, God provides this discipline with love (Hebrews 12:6, "...for those whom the Lord loves He disciplines, and scourges every son whom He receives." By the way, when did I hint that God is ONLY love? On the contrary, the point of my comment was that we must ensure we place equal emphasis on Love and Justice when practice our doctrine and not be one-sided. Now, in reference to your statement regarding 1 John 4:8. You wrote, "Had the apostle declared that love is what God is, we would be forced to infer that God is what love is...and worship love." "You," not we might be forced to infer such nonsense because if what you say is true, then you must be worshipping holiness, thereby destroying all personal attributes of God, namely, God the man, Jesus Christ. Your rebuttal holds no water and is in great need of an overhaul. You are shaping this verse to fit your doctrine so that it reads, "He who does not love does not know God, for love is of God." Why is this interpretation wrong? It is possible to know God and know His love but not show love. Want proof? The Church in Corinth was a prime example. This proves that your interpretation is false. Now, if you interpret the verse to read, "He who does not know love does not know God, for God is love." Can this be applied to the church in Corinth? Yes. They knew God, they knew His love (demonstrated through the sacrifice of Christ), but did not show it because they didn't know how -- they were still babes in Christ. Therefore, it is more logical to interpret that verse as meaning, "He who does not know love does not know God, for God is Love." The essence of God is multi-faceted. If you are brave enough to accept this, how can your conscience allow you to continue twisting something as simple and very straight-forward as this verse? But I understand: you shape (interpret) the Bible to fit into your doctrine and not shape your doctrine to fit into the Bible. HUGH error my friend. Stop fearing so much: Romans 8:15, "For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit of sonship. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." Don't fear God like a stranger, respect Him like a son who He loves. Peace brother.
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            1. Wipe the egg from your face
              Posted On: 02/07/08 10:35:04 AMAge 47, MO
              Sorry, I couldn't read all of your response, its lenght was much longer than my interest or my attention span. I have one question for you and then we'll see who is blinded by pet theology. When did I ever say here, or in the past that I don't beieve true Christians are eternally saved? Well, I'm waiting or you to remove the egg from you're face. If you recall, I've said the teaching of the doctrine is irrelevent because if it's Christian it is saved. Just like if it's a fish it swims. Certainly you understand that! I don't get you, I've lived in So Cal for 20 years and I've seen enough secure, self rightous, ego maniacs to think that you are either blind, recently moved there from Montana, or live in a gated community. The teaching of the doctrine of ES leads to fat lazy Christians. I stand behind that remark, wake up and see your culture. Read the Scriptures with an eye for serving Christ and the culture. Enough fun. Seriously brother, what value is it to teach ES? Did Christ do it? Is it essential as a lifestyle or is ES a fact that Christian hope is well founded? Bless God! John
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              1. blindness
                Posted On: 02/07/08 01:38:11 PMAge 40, CA
                You wrote: "Sorry, I couldn't read all of your response, its lenght was much longer than my interest or my attention span." Here is the cause of your blindness: You're MORE concerned about being heard than hearing. God gave us two ears and one mouth for a reason. Peace brother. :)
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              2. response
                Posted On: 02/07/08 01:23:49 PMAge 40, CA
                Hello again. 1) You never said you believed or didn't believe in ES, however, your belief that we should not talk about ES (in essence, removing all Scripture from the Bible that refers to ES) is indicative of Arminian belief which leads to Self-righteousness. And in my life I have seen plenty of this affect. 2) I don't recall your previous statements because I don't make it a point to follow your comments. 3) I am aware of False Security. But, I am not referring to that. Unlike you, I've seen plenty of cases of people who don't talk about ES, don't believe in it, and therefore don't live a secure life in Christ because they believe their salvation is dependent on their works and ability. 4) You are guilty of broad-brushing. Not all Christians who are taught ES are Fat and Lazy. If you were to see my congregation, you would learn something new. I'll give you my life for an example: I actively support two missions, I do street evangelism when I have a free hour or two, I pastor a church, and provide Christian counseling at no charge. And I hold a full-time job. I am a strong believer in ES -- Are you going to call me fat and lazy? Your perception is just that -- yours. You cannot claim a fact based on your perception. The world does not evolve around your perception and knowledge. Do you know what's in the heart of those who you "see?" How do you know that these secure self-righteous people are only acting "secure" but really aren't? Self-righteous people act really good. I think they've fooled you. 5) Lastly, the value of teaching of ES is: * We are to teach the WHOLE counsel of God. * 2 TIM 3:16, "ALL Scripture again ALL Scripture is good for training in righteousness." ALL Scripture. Now, how can you say preaching ES is not good?? Do you really want me to fill they response with the Jesus' words on ES? I know you know there are quite a few. ES provides assurance to a person who is overwhelmed with fear of losing their salvation. BUT we have to preach the whole counsel not half. Peace.
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                1. My Name?
                  Posted On: 02/08/08 04:57:43 PMAge 40, CA
                  I have written for the purpose of clarifying what was previously unclear to you. Knowing my name would only allow you the opportunity to continue future discontent, and therefore, more opportunity to demonstrate your inability to control your emotions. Your comments do not offend me. They only provide me with an opportunity to practice compassion. So I thank God for this. As you know, "sometimes" discernment can be accomplished through knowledge of Scripture and not be entirely dependent on the work of the Holy Spirit. Matthew 15:18-19, "But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean.'" Our weaknesses originate from three roots: 1) Weakness to the flesh (Food and Sex), 2) Weakness to material possessions, and 3) Weakness to love of self (pride). When Satan tempted Eve, he used temptation that originated from these three roots and was successful. He use the same three to tempt Jesus, but, as you know, he failed. Which of the three has he used to influence you write the comments you wrote in your last commentary? I don't believe 1) or 2) would apply... do you? Facetiousness and sarcasm are only a couple fruit that come from the trees of pride. We all have our weaknesses. The first step in improving is recognizing them and accepting them in order that we may present them to God for help. Peace and grace, brother.
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                2. You win!
                  Posted On: 02/08/08 02:51:31 AMAge 47, MO
                  It is obvious by your writing and reasoning skills that I am not worthy of your superior holiness. Your use of brotherly love is quite apparent as you spoke by the Holy Spirit's direction. Your ability to understand the true me at the depth of my soul leaves me a wretched wreck looking for a church like yours to attend. You are a pastor, a counselor, a patient, a full time employee at McDonalds, and a biblical grand master, I can't compete with that. Please accept my appologies for wasting your time, challenging your wisdom, and not uderstanding the depth of your discernment. Please, grand master tell us your real name, in the future what shall we call you? Yes, I am John
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                  1. response
                    Posted On: 02/08/08 02:51:23 PMAge 40, CA
                    Hello my brother: I apologize for the offense -- I tripped over my overzealous concern for the church. It was my intention to grab your attention -- although I see my attempt was packaged a little more roughly than was necessary. But to clarify things: I am a public high school teacher, and have a Master's in Theology. I say this not to bring glory upon myself for I know that if I were to walk on water, most would say, "that's only because you're a bad swimmer." but I say this so that you may know that I have plenty of opportunity to improve my life here on earth, but would rather devote most of my free time to helping Christians avoid the pitfalls (e.g. the extremes of legalism and licentiousness) so that they may become more like Christ as they walk with Him. I don't deserve anything God has given me, and "feel" eternally in debt to Him. Why should I boast about what I have when I know it is God who gives us all we have? I try my best (through trust in our Lord) that I may not only read, but live Philippians 2:3, "Let nothing be done through selfish ambition or conceit, but in lowliness of mind let each esteem others better than himself. Let each of you look out not only for his own interests, but also for the interest of others." My greatest concern (outside of evangelism) is that everyone understand that it is crucial to teach everything in the Bible with a balanced approach -- that's all. And that there are forces, much more powerful than we believe, and, at times, that we greatly underestimate, which will contribute to the growing problem in the church today: Lack of Spiritual growth due to poor spiritual nutrition. Peace and Grace.
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                    1. A CLAY JAR
                      Posted On: 02/08/08 10:29:03 PMAge 64, OH
                      Dear friend I am chief among sinners and I only boast of my weakness for in my weakness Jesus is always strong. I have absolutely no degree at all, of any kind. By the grace of God I have been taught by no man. I have sat under the greatest Teacher in the universe for 33 years and not without result. For He is a teacher more than able to make up for my being such a very poor student. Yet I was sent to teach High School and many students were saved until them fired me for telling the students of The Lord Jesus even when they asked me. The Lord also sent me to be a project leader in a steel mill crane manufacturers engineering dept. I was able to do stress analysis with His help even though I had no training in engineering. I have no degree but the Lord has sent me to teach college professors and they were humbled not by me but by the Almighty. He sent me to teach pastors and I told them more than I knew, but it was not me speaking but the Almighty. God has sent me to preach before judges and even kings and he has always given me the words to preach even though I had none prepared. I preach every Sunday but never prepare a sermon or even have a note. There is only one qualification to the Holy Spirit speaking through a man. That is for him to be aware that he is absolutely nothing except for being the chief of sinners. We have this treasure in jars of clay so that men will be aware that this all surpassing power is from God and not from us. Lou
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                    2. Bless God
                      Posted On: 02/08/08 06:00:43 PMAge 47, MO
                      You know, when I send emails, speak, or what ever, my first response is- this is a good answer that should fix the problem, then the Spirit speaks. This exchange has reinforced lessons that I am slow to learn. 1) I am quick to act in the flesh and think it is right because I am Christian. 2) Doctrine doesn't matter, faith of a child moves mountains. 3) We can argue all we want but the TRUTH is that we don't know squat. Brother, we haven't even a glimps of God and think we have Him all figured out. How pathetically prideful is that? Anyway, I'm glad you too heard from the HS after our exchange. I was hoping Ray wouldn't post my last response so that my shame wouldn't be on public display, thank God for ES! (and the baseball bat:-) By His grace, John
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                      1. Truth
                        Posted On: 02/11/08 12:33:55 AMAge 40, CA
                        Well, I can't agree with you more on this comment. :) We've both learned. God always has a way of turning a bad incident into one that is good for us, and one in which we are able to glorify Him! God is more than good -- there is no word that can describe Him. NONE. Continue fighting the good fight!
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              3. Response
                Posted On: 02/07/08 12:33:10 PMAge 40, CA
                I think the commentator is referring to divorce and remarriage in general, which includes divorcing for irreconcilable differences. The two "options" provided in Scripture for divorce and remarriage are if the victim's spouse committed adultery, or the victim's spouse divorced him or her when he or she didn't want to get the divorced. But there are many people in the church today who have been divorced (after being saved) for other reasons and have remarried. Some people say, God forgives and forgets the act of remarriage outside of Scriptural boundaries. Yes, God forgives the act of remarriage, however, every time the person has sex with his or her spouse, he or she is commiting adultery -- every time. And there are consequences to every sin we commit, so, a person living in that condition would be facing a lot of chastisement in their lives due to the consequence of their continual sin. The reason churches don't treat this type of adultery as they do homosexuality is because adultery caused by remarriage (outside of Scriptural boundaries) is not as socially repulsive as homosexuality, and the Bible seemingly demonstrates God's wrath more vividly on homosexuality than it does on remarriage. Does this mean that we should ignore this person's comment, which by the way is very valid and very strong? No we should not. Furthermore, we should listen and do something about it. For instance, if a church knows that a person who attends that church was (after he or she was saved) remarried (outside of Scriptural boundaries) and is therefore living in continual adultery, AND the same church knows that a homosexual is attending its services, they should treat both the same: they both can attend but not participate as a church member (e.g. evangelism, hold any other church functions, speak in the church, or start a ministry for the local church or church in general). They are allowed to listen to the sermons and ask for prayer -- so that God may intervene in such a difficult issue (homosexuality and living in adultery).
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          2. MERCIFUL AND JUST
            Posted On: 02/05/08 11:38:22 AMAge 64, OH
            Yes John, it is the age old argument;"Will God be merciful OR just". There is no need to wonder about this for the Holy Scriptures tell us that Jesus is merciful AND just. Jesus is merciful AND just in everything that He does. Jesus never chooses between mercy and justice. Jesus is always merciful and just in every single thing he does. Lou
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The Gay “Christian.”
Posted On: 02/01/08 06:31:25 PM Age 67, WA
Reference: The Gay “Christian.” – Ray Comfort To be a Christian, you must stop your sinful lifestyle, commonly called "repentance." Mr. Comfort, Are you saying to become a Christian, one must stop sinning? Are you also saying one must stop sinning to stay a Christian? If that is what you are saying, I think you will have a tough time dealing with Jesus, Paul, John and Peter. You might want to recheck your Bible.
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  1. CONFESS OUR SIN BUT WALK AS JESUS DID
    Posted On: 02/02/08 08:05:03 AMAge 64, OH
    After his 1st missionary trip Paul said "of apostles I am least", after his 2nd trip Paul said "of saints I am least", and after his 3rd trip Paul said "of sinners I am chief". Paul did NOT mean that he had fallen into more and more immorality. To the contrary, as Paul got more mature he also walked a more holy walk. But Paul is not lying either. What Paul is talking about is that the closer Paul got to the Lord Jesus the more he was aware that he had a black, selfish heart that was sinful. This sin would always be with Paul until the Lord took away his flesh and gave him a glorified body. 1 John speaks of this, in Ch 1 it says:8If we claim to be without sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness. 10If we claim we have not sinned, we make him out to be a liar and his word has no place in our lives. But then in Ch 2 it says this:3We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love[b] is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.-- BOTH OF THESE ARE TRUE. We do not have the choice between one or the other. A person can not "continue" to walk in sin and be a Christian. Jesus is the judge of what walking in sin is and not us. I knew a brother who walked in sexual immorality for years BUT FELT BAD ABOUT IT. This was the conviction of the Holy Spirit. But if he had not even felt bad I would have been even more worried. After years he felt so bad he wanted to kill himself and finally was able to stop his immoral behavior. But during this time he was not preaching to all how great sexual immorality was and that it was not sin. If he had done that, I would have thought he was not a Christian. Lou
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    1. sinful lifestyles
      Posted On: 02/04/08 09:23:17 AMAge 50, MN
      My point is and you admit it here - Many Christians live in this 'sinful' lifestyle - divorced and remarried without the qualifications you point out. So why isn't there an outcry about this 'sinful' lifestye, why don't we try to get laws about remarriage changed? Why are these people willingly accepted into the fellowship without being asked to change? //Again then - how is a divorced/remarried lifestyle different from a homosexual lifestyle in this regard? //I contend it's because christians want to divorce and remarry yet we can still point our fingers at homosexuality and say "at least I don't do that!" It's an easy target we can all get behind because it's too hard to look at the planks in our own eyes. Am I wrong?
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      1. Response
        Posted On: 02/07/08 01:30:20 PMAge 40, CA
        I think your comment is strong and very valid. The two "options" provided in Scripture for divorce and remarriage are if the victim's spouse committed adultery, or the victim's spouse divorced him or her when he or she didn't want to get the divorced. But there are many people in the church today who have been divorced (after being saved) for other reasons and have remarried. Some people say, God forgives and forgets the act of remarriage outside of Scriptural boundaries. Yes, God forgives the act of remarriage, however, every time the person has sex with his or her spouse, he or she is commiting adultery -- every time. And there are consequences to every sin we commit, so, a person living in that condition would be facing a lot of chastisement in their lives due to the consequence of their continual sin. The reason churches don't treat this type of adultery as they do homosexuality is because adultery caused by remarriage (outside of Scriptural boundaries) is not as socially repulsive as homosexuality, and the Bible seemingly demonstrates God's wrath more vividly on homosexuality than it does on remarriage. Does this mean that we should ignore your comment? Absolutely not. In fact, we should listen and do something about it. For instance, if a church knows that a person who attends that church was (after he or she was saved) remarried (outside of Scriptural boundaries) and is therefore living in continual adultery, AND the same church knows that a homosexual is attending its services, they should treat both the same: they both can attend but not participate as a church member (e.g. evangelism, hold any other church functions, speak in the church, or start a ministry for the local church or church in general). They are allowed to listen to the sermons and ask for prayer -- so that God may intervene in such a difficult issue (homosexuality and living in adultery). Hope this helps.
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      2. HOMOSEXUALITY IS MANY SINS
        Posted On: 02/05/08 11:53:34 AMAge 64, OH
        You are not wrong friend. It is never right to justify one sin while saying another sin is wrong. Divorce in the church has brought about much more sin. But we also can not say homosexuality is OK because there is divorce in the church. Homosexuality is a abomination to God. The offender is usually committing many sins instead of one sin. They are having sex outside of marriage. They are being unfaithful to their last partner. They are rebelling against the natural order that God has established. Most now even flaunt their sin which is sin. Instead of keeping their sin private they want to make it public and convince others to participate in their sin at least by giving approval to their sin. Most homosexuals end up in oral anal sex which is also breaking the most basic laws of cleanliness. Until the church is willing to seek God to show them their own sin and seek his grace to repent this nation will continue to fall. Lou
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divorce and remarriage
Posted On: 02/01/08 12:42:11 PM Age 50, MN
Jesus was very clear "anyone who divorces and remarries commits adultery." He didn't make any exceptions that are recorded. Yet statistics show 50% of evangelicals (same as the general population) divoce and most remarry. Yet they are gladly accepted into the fellowship even though they (while they say they are forgiven and are) continue in this 'sinful lifestyle'. // So why is that not hypocritical - to accept those who have no intention of 'changing' but to condemn others because they won't. // I think Jesus is clearer on this than he is on homosexuality. Can someone please explain this?
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  1. MARRIAGE
    Posted On: 02/02/08 08:29:01 AMAge 64, OH
    Please see answer to the above post. Christians who leave their spouse when their spouse has not been unfaithful to them are not walking in obedience to the Lord Jesus Christ. If we confess our sins and repent then Jesus forgives us and cleanses us of all unrighteousness. But Jesus does not hold the innocent guilty for what the other has done. The spouse that stays in the marriage and has been faithful is NOT guilty of the broken marriage. This faithful partner is free and NOT BOUND and is free to remarry IF the Lord Jesus would so direct. Paul speaks of this in 1 Cor 7: 10To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband. 11But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.- It is very clear here that many of the so called Christians are walking in sin when they remarry another. - 15But if the unbeliever leaves, let him do so. A believing man or woman is not bound in such circumstances; God has called us to live in peace. 16How do you know, wife, whether you will save your husband? Or, how do you know, husband, whether you will save your wife?-- here Paul says that if the unbelieving spouse( the one who is not being obedient to Christ and so an unbeliever) leaves the one then the one who has been left is NOT BOUND but is free to remarry. If they are not bound then they are free. Jesus does not hold the innocent guilty of the sin of the other. Some can argue that the one who remarries is in living in adultery, but if they are, the sin is on the one who left them and not on them. God is not a hard taskmaster but His burden is light. Lou
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    1. we all make God's word a lie then
      Posted On: 02/04/08 09:17:56 AMAge 50, MN
      If we don't observe the Sabbath (and most Christians don't give a rip about it) does that make God's word a lie? If Christians feel free to divorce and remarry (many, many do) does that make God's word a lie? If we allow women to teach Sunday School does that make God's word a lie? //I could go on and on - but of course you could explain all of these away with 'cultural understandings', blah, blah, blah - but NOT homosexuality. Very interesting.
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      1. WHY SHOULD MERE MEN SPEAK
        Posted On: 02/05/08 12:14:38 PMAge 64, OH
        Friend why would you assume that I do not observe the sabbath. But I not only give this day to the Lord but I try to give every day to Jesus as well. I by His grace have been called to serve Him everyday and all day. But as to homosexuality: I do not know of anywhere in scripture where God destroyed a whole plain of cities for not observing the Sabbath. But God did destroy the cities and the whole dead sea plain for the sin of homosexuality. God also destroyed almost the whole tribe on Benjamin because they defended the men who were of their tribe that were homosexuals.(Judges 19 & 20) As for women speaking in the church: is it not also a sin for any man to speak of his own accord in church or at least it is far short of letting the Holy Spirit speak through him. The Holy Spirit is available to all. Why would anyone speak of their own accord when the Lord of glory could speak through them. Lou
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      2. Jesus is the Word
        Posted On: 02/05/08 11:51:47 AMAge 47, MO
        No friend, God's word is not a lie because Jesus is the Word. If we are in Christ, we are in the Word (Jesus) and we are free. However, Scripture is the law and prophecy. Christ is found in the law and prophecy but no man can keep the law. If we break a part of the law, we are guilty of the whole law. Christ came to fulfill the law and prophecy removing the burden of its consequences. So again, if we are in Christ, the law has no bearing on our lives because we live (and die) to glorify Christ. Christ is our sabbath, our salvation, our bride, our teacher, our ???. Obviously then, our obedience is not to the law but to Christ as HIS Spirit directs our lives. Therefore, the freedom in Christ is to abandon our efforts and remain in Him. If we remain in Him we will not sin. Hope this helps. John
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homesexuality
Posted On: 02/01/08 09:50:51 AM Age 49, NY
i think its sad that the church at large has stood by while the liberals have taken control of almost everything. we have allowed the changing trend in culture to creep into the church. we need to call sin for what it is. nothing has been provin about someone being born gay.(scientifically) i cant really explain why some guys have these feminine manerisms, but still it doesnt prove that there were born gay. its possible, someone to turn from this lifestyle. (ex: ellen degeneris partner) she was her partner for a while, now she is married to a man.to say that your a christian and still practice this lifestyle is still going against the teachings of the word of GOD. its an abomination. its sinful. this may not be a popular opionion so to speak, but we need to stand on our conviction
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  1. Christ dwels in afliction
    Posted On: 02/04/08 09:23:03 AMAge 47, MO
    Your bottom line says it all, but friend how can you be so sure of your convictions? Why are Christians so judgemental and intolerant?? You have your truth and I have mine, is yours any better? See how it goes. Thank God He is truth and the truth shall set us free because when we stand on truth, we stand on Christ!!! If we are convinced of the truth, it's easy and we look forward to persecution- which builds faith, hope, and love. And the greatest of these is love. Brother, Christians who have faith in faith are not bold because their faith is in themselves. A wimpy Christian is afraid to speak up because they like to be in the world. Personally, I look forward to the dog pile that ensues, it's hard to breath at the bottom of the pile but Christ dwells in the fiery furnace. John
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Wording matters!
Posted On: 02/01/08 09:01:02 AM Age 30, PA
Mr. Comfort said, "To be a Christian, you must stop your sinful lifestyle, commonly called 'repentance.'" I understand what he means - the first sentences in that paragraph make his point for him, and the rest of what he says shows an appropriate use of the Law for the New Testament believer. But I'm afraid I have to take issue with that one sentence. To "repent" means to have a change of mind. That change of mind will result in a change of action/lifestyle, yes, but to be clear, repentance is not action-related, but rather attitude-related. The way he explains that a true Christian will repent sounds like works-salvation. 'In order for your salvation to be true, this is what you must DO...' The Bible - and Mr. Comfort himself, usually - is so very clear that it is grace alone by faith alone in Christ alone (Ephesians 2:8-9). DO is nowhere a part of that. That sentence seems to imply that a homosexual must simply stop being a homosexual to be saved. That's not true, Biblically, and will run a person entrapped by their own sin into the ground - how can a leopard change his spots? Not without a change of species. It is only through the power of the Holy Spirit that we born-sinners can be re-born-saints. Without the Holy Spirit, a homosexually-acting man or woman cannot hope to change themselves. Yes, it may primarily be an issue of semantics. But semantics are important, especially when dealing with the eternal life and death issue of a sinner's salvation. You cannot be too clear when the Gospel is at stake. Steph VG Catch up with us at our blog, Van Gorden Views www.vangorden-vm.blogspot.com
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Summed up nicely
Posted On: 02/01/08 06:48:14 AM Age 44, DC
"While a fornicator, a homosexual, an adulterer, a thief, and liar can become a Christian, it is important to understand that they cannot remain in their sins". One can also add idolatry to that list.
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