One never wins a popularity contest by naming names even though it is biblical to do so. I wonder how the sheep are to avoid some wolves if names aren't used, but this one pains me.
I have appreciated the ministry of Pastor John Hagee. His books have been well written with good substance. He is a powerful preacher. And, he is an ardent friend of Israel, also known as a Christian Zionist. He heads what is known as "Christians United for Israel."
But can you ever be too much of a Christian Zionist to the point where you become an enemy of the Jews due to theology?
Pastor Hagee has been on record for holding to the theology known as "Dual Covenant." That is, in part, the belief that the Jews don't really need Jesus to be saved because they are God's chosen people. While they are, indeed, God's chosen people, there is no other way of salvation than through the shed blood of the Lamb of God--the Messiah Jesus. The Bible is so clear on this it isn't even debatable...except to John Hagee.
Pastor Hagee has at times renounced his "Dual Covenant" theology and then seems to return to it.
He has a new book out titled In Defense of Israel. I have been in ministry over 25 years and much of it has been Israel and/or Jewish-related. I have seen people and ministries "love the Jews to death." They deny them the gospel, emphasize humanitarian work, and even speak in churches suggesting that it is not wise to evangelize Jews.
But in Hagee's new book he almost goes beyond all of that. In the book he states, (1) The Jewish people as a whole did not reject Jesus as Messiah; (2) Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah; (3) Jesus refused by word and deed to claim to be the Messiah; (4) How can the Jews be blamed for rejecting what was never offered them? He further states there was a "Calvary conspiracy" between Rome, the High Priest, and Herod. The conspiracy was to execute Jesus as an insurrectionist who was too dangerous to be allowed to live.
The clip of this can be heard here. If your dial-up connection will not allow you to see this, then find a DSL computer and watch it before you blast me out of the saddle.
To claim that Jesus never openly proclaimed Himself to be the Messiah is nonsense. He did it both privately (John 4) and publicly (Matthew 23:10).
As the head of Moriel Ministries, Jacob Prasch says, "He [Hagee] is a doctrinally confused man who is misleading others and such an irresponsible book does more to harm the cause of opposing the error of Replacement Theology and of enlightening the church about the prophetic purposes of God for Israel and the Jews than it does to assist it. I am sad that a good friend of Israel with what I believe is a sincere love for the Jews has frankly made himself look like a theological charlatan in the eyes of any serious conservative Evangelical scholar."
But when the love of any ethnic group becomes so strong that we dare not offend them and we thus twist Scripture, we have hit a real bump in the road! Serious deception has entered in. I know of a few other pro-Israel organizations whose delegates actually fill church pulpits and tell congregations not to evangelize the Jews for varying reasons.
My own father came from an Orthodox Jewish home but someone dared to tell him the "gospel truth" many years ago. Had they not done that, since he passed away in 2001, he could be in eternal flames now. Someone had to risk "offending" him and tell him the truth: He needed Jesus as his Messiah. They had to risk and preach the solid gospel to him. Thankfully, he thus died a believer.
Messianic scholar Dr. Michael Brown says this about Pastor Hagee: "In the clarifying statements (that Pastor Hagee has made) he explained that Jesus came to be the suffering Messiah but not the reigning Messiah. But this statement introduces another nuance to the error, since nowhere in the New Testament is such a distinction made."
Brown also says, "Jesus is proclaimed as the Messiah of Israel, period, and because He is the Messiah of Israel, He is the Savior of the world."
How does a good and sincere man stray so seriously? Perhaps because we are in rampant days of deception. But in Hagee's case, I feel he so wants to please the Jews that he has compromised to the point of utter blasphemy to say that "Jesus did not come to earth to be the Messiah." There was no "Calvary conspiracy." It was God's plan of the ages that Jesus be the Lamb of God that takes away the sin of the world!
I believe Pastor John Hagee sincerely loves God but in this instance, he is sincerely wrong. It would be good if all reading this would pray for Hagee, that he would denounce this aberrant theology he now seems to embrace. We need his voice on behalf of Israel today, but not with the message as it stands now.
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I am sorry, but the story about the rapture is from the devil. He wants to trick people into thinking that they can do whatever they want to do, and if they see their christian family and friends disappear, then they know to get their life in order. How in the world the dead in Christ will rise first and those who are alive will go to Heaven with Jesus, if they are already in Heaven. Are we going to come back down to Earth and do it again? Or are we going to be Heaven looking at the wicked, LOL. I do not think so. Furthermore, what makes you-all think that you are more important than Jesus and the disciples that you will not go through tribulation. This generation, in my opinion seems like the worst, because now we have the television, adverstisment, and so forth that shows us unholy things, whether we mean to see them or not. Lets be real people, everyone will go through something terrible before Jesus' return--the christians by the anti-christ and the wicked by God and his wrath without mixture. How in the world will the christians be tested, if they will disappear before the tribulation. Revelation 7:1-3 "And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
2 And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea,
3 Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."
If we are not here for the tribulation, then why in the world would the angel say, "Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads." If someone has a different interpretation, then feel free to let me know. God's wrath comes after the things that the anti-christ does to the saints of God, those who keep the commandments of God, the 7th day Sabbath as well.
Thanks Click here to reply to this post
Hagee if the truth was to be known is a Jesus Hater
Posted On: 03/17/08 08:49:43 PM
Age 57, TX
He pretends to be a friend of the jews and catholicas in san antonio and wherever he goes however deep dosn he is a bigot, a liar and a hateful person. He ststes his friendship with the ctholic church and at same time dcondems the catholic church and others closely related to it as being worng in their teachings and not the mother church. Remember the Catholic Church was the first then severasl broke off and formed their own as they did not belive that the POPE was infallible. The lutherans, Espicopalians, with Church of England, Gree=ks, Russians and severasl more christian faith is the US and the world. Hageeis truly a hateful person and controls thousands in his huge church where he preaches anything but christianity in its truest words. He needs to mind his own business and stay out of politics. His church has lost many of its founders and only grows thru the attention to minorities and immigrants. Click here to reply to this post
John Hagee
Posted On: 12/28/07 10:39:18 AM
Age 58, AR
Dear Jan Markell,
I am happy for your father to have accepted the faith of our only hope and Redeemer Jesus Christ. I would like to invite you to read something from a Bible student who also is of Jewish heritage Doug Batchelor of Amazing Facts. He has many free books and booklets online. Two of these are intitled Hell-Fire A Twisted Truth Untangled, and The Rich Man and Lazerus. Both of these are excellent resources backed with multiple Bible texts in context. I know you are busy and I won't take more of your time. You can read these at your own leasure. God bless you and all Jews through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Mary Huddleston Click here to reply to this post
Not surprising
Posted On: 12/17/07 04:34:45 AM
Age 53, VA
None of this should be surprising. John Hagee is of the Word-Faith persuasion, very much into theatrics and sensationalism. He's looking to build the church of John Hagee and knows that his sensationalism will attract the undisecrning and invigorate those who are already mesmorized by his teaching. Like many of the other posters have mentioned, at first he seemed to preach/teach a solid message, but in time and after seeing him cavort with Ken Copeland, I realized it was all about "John Hagee." Click here to reply to this post
You can disagree, but remember to walk in love
Posted On: 12/19/07 04:41:21 PM
Age 39, IN
You commented that Hagee is Word-Faith. Are you opposed to God's Word, faith in His Word or both? Click here to reply to this post
re: You can disagree, but remember to walk in love
I understand what Hagee was saying. However Jesus DID say He was the Son of God, although He never used the exact word, term of "Messiah". And Yes there was a conspiracy against Jesus to set up His death - Hagee was right about that. And although Jesus did come as the Messiah, His purpose was to be the sacrifical lamb for our sin when He came THE FIRST TIME. He came to die, to be the sacrifice for our sin. That is what Hagee meant by what he said. He was speaking of Jesus' PURPOSE AND REASON FOR BEING THERE AT THAT TIME - not Who He actually was because the Jews would reject Him as their Messiah AT THAT TIME. God knew this would be that way. The next time He comes - (His second coming to Earth) will be to BE the MESSIAH AND KING OF KINGS! WE all need salvation by HIS pure blood to wash our sin clean - THAT is what He came for the first time - NOT to BE the Messiah AT THAT TIME. He did not come to BE the Messiah AT THAT TIME. HE was the Messiah, but God knew the Jews would reject Him as such THEN. In so doing, the Gentiles got the chance to be grafted in (adopted)and have salvation. Had the Jews not rejected their Messiah at that time, we'd never have had this opportunity, but God planned it in HIS prophecy - He sees the end from the beginning. He is the Alpha and the Omega.
About the Jews needing to be saved the same as anyone else - yes they do - there is only one way to heaven and God - and that is true of everyone - no matter who they are or what blood runs through their veins. God does not have a different set of rules for the Jews -sorry - Jews have to accept their Messiah as Savior like everyone else. They have to be washed clean by the blood of the Lamb like everyone else. That does NOT mean that Jews give up being Jewish or that they "become Christians" - it simply means that they are Jews who have accepted their Messiah and the salvation He offers. Most people have it backwards - Jews do NOT 'become Christians' - Christianity IS A JEWISH FAITH ! Christianity IS JEWISH ; CAME FROM THE JEWS; Our Scriptures came from the Jews. Our Saviour is Jewish ! Christians are Jewish at their roots ! The first "Christian" church in the first century and the Jews worshiped together! The First Christians were JEWS ! So anytime anyone says that the Christians have to "save" the Jews and "make them Christians" have it backwards. The original Chrisitans WERE JEWS ! The Gentiles are privledged to be offered FOR A TIME the gift of salvation. AT no time ever do Chrisitans replace the Jews = "when the time of the Gentiles is fulfilled" - then the Jews again will be grafted back in and the Christians will be "taken out of the way" (raptured). This will then be the Tribulation time and the Jews grafted back in and God says that ALL the Jews (Israel) will be saved ! Click here to reply to this post
THE RAPTURE
Posted On: 12/18/07 11:55:35 AM
Age 64, OH
You say that the rapture will come and then the tribulation. But the scripture that everyone uses about the rapture is this one 1 Thessalonians 4:16 For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first.-- But this scripture tells us which Trumpet call it is 1 Corinthians 15:52
in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the LAST trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. -- So it is at the LAST TRUMPET that the rapture takes place.-- So now look in the Revelation 8 -11 and see what happens at the 7 trumpets. The last trumpet can NOT be the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, or 6th trumpet and it can not be before the 7th trumpet call or it would NOT BE THE LAST TRUMPET. If you study the 1st through 6th trumpet calls you will see they are the tribulation. The saints will not be taken up in the rapture until the 7th trump after the tribulation. This should not be a concern for anyone for the Lord Jesus who created the whole universe is surly able to save us and keep us in all this great tribulation. And the Lord Jesus who gave even His life for us would surly be willing to save all those who are trusting in Him and nothing but Him. Lou Click here to reply to this post
the raputure is not the trumps
Posted On: 06/15/08 07:40:51 PM
Age 53, AZ
the trumps that Revelation talks about has nothing to do with the rapture. The seven trumps are judgements against the unbelievers. Although the sixth seal says nothing about a trump I still believe that the sixth seal is the raputure. Be cause why would people be crying out for the rocks to fall on them to hide them from the wrath of hte lamb? Obveously they must be seeing Jesus in the clouds raptureing up the saints!!! Then later a large multitude appear in heaven. That's the raptured chuch. So the seal's are called by an elder the tribulation and now the wrath of God is going to fall. Click here to reply to this post
Rapture
Posted On: 03/07/08 05:53:04 PM
Age 53, AZ
If every one would read all of the seals and change your attiude on the rider of the white horse, which is not the anti christ in the person. He doesn't appear until
the thirteeth chapter of Revelation. So the rider on the white is the spirit of anti christ. All of the riders are siritual forces NOT people.
When you come to the sixth seal and after the sky rolls back like a scroll what do you think is happping? Someone is entering the atomsphere. Then the kings of the earth and others cry out for the rocks to fall on them and they mention the wrath of the lamb, Why? Because they see the church raptured!!!!!!!
The sixthe seal is the rapture. Click here to reply to this post
Last Trump is the last in the Feast of Trumpets
Posted On: 12/28/07 06:15:59 AM
Age 53, VA
The last trumphet in 1 Corinthians refers to the last long blast blown at the end of the Feast of Trumpets called the "tekiah gedolah." The Corinthians would have no knowledge of the 7 trumpets in Revelation since John had not yet written Revelation at the time Paul wrote to the Corinthians. Click here to reply to this post
Wrong trumpet
Posted On: 12/18/07 03:55:48 PM
Age 56, NE
You're mixing up your trumpets. Corinthians is talking about military trumpets. The last one was sounded to announce the departure. Click here to reply to this post
THE LAST TRUMPET - NOT A LAST TRUMPET
Posted On: 12/19/07 09:02:11 PM
Age 64, OH
Isn't that how the homosexuals justify that homosexuality is OK; they say the Bible is not clear and does not mean what it says. I do not think the scripture has mixed up any trumpets. The scripture says THE LAST TRUMPET not the last military trumpet. When the Holy scriptures say THE LAST TRUMPET is means just that. it does not say A last trumpet but THE last trumpet. The word THE means the one and only last trumpet. If what you say is correct then it would say A not THE. There is only ONE last trumpet and that can not be before the 7th trumpet which means that the saints are going through the 7 trumpets. Look in the parable about the wheat and weeds and Jesus says gather the weeds FIRST and THEN gather the wheat. You say the wheat is gathered first and the weeds are left. But Jesus says it is the opposite. You have a choice in that you can believe what Jesus says or you can believe the rapture doctrine. i could give you countless more examples that prove the saints are going through he tribulation.- Maybe the Jehovah witness are correct they also say the word first does not mean first and the word last does not mean last. They say Jesus is only the first created being not the first because God is first. If the words in scripture do not mean what they say then the scripture can be made to mean whatever anyone wants it to. Lou Click here to reply to this post
Clear
Posted On: 12/20/07 03:47:39 PM
Age 56, NE
I didn't mean that the Bible is unclear, quite the opposite. You are too comsumed in trying to disprove the pre-trib rapture to look at the evidence. It is two different trumpets. Paul's trumpet is about the resurrection of the saints and John's never mentions this. Is it a trumpet as we think of them or is it a ram's horn, shofar? Does it matter? Do the same words always mean the same thing in the Bible? That's why we have to study these things closely. Click here to reply to this post
LAST TRUMPET IS THE LAST TRUMPET
Posted On: 12/24/07 01:04:55 AM
Age 64, OH
Well I know what a trumpet is and I know what the word LAST means but evidently you do not. the last trumpet is the last trumpet of any kind of trumpet. The number has NOTHING to do with the purpose of the trumpet. Lou Click here to reply to this post
Last Trump is the last in the Feast of Trumpets
Posted On: 12/28/07 06:31:26 AM
Age 53, VA
The Feast of Trumpets has a LAST blast also. The last trump in 1 Corinthians refers to the LAST blast in the Feast of Trumpets called "tekian gedolah" which means the great tumpet blast. The 7 trumpets of Revelation would be unknown to the Corinthians since Revelation had not yet been written. Click here to reply to this post
WEEDS COLLECTED FIRST
Posted On: 12/30/07 01:14:27 PM
Age 64, OH
Dear friend if paul was talking about he last trumpet in the Feast of trumpets, Paul would have said the last trumpet in the feast of trumpets. For this trumpet is NOT THE LAST TRUMPET. But Paul the last trumpet and so it is just that the last not the last of a certain group. The Corinthians did not need the Book The Revelation to be able to read The Last Trumpet and understand it was to happen at the last trumpet. You are taking the trumpet out of contect to say it is the last trumpet of the feast of trimpets for the subject of the passage is NOT THE FEAST OF TRUMPETS BUT THE SUBJECT IS THE RETURN OF OUR LORD. The subject of the passage in the Revelation is the same. For it starts out about the 7 trumpets and then ends with the return of our Lord. Look at Matthew in the parable of the weeds. Jesus says FIRST COLLECT THE WEEDS AND TIE IN BUNDLES TO BE BURNED AND THEN COLLECT THE WHEAT TO BE PUT IN THE BARN. We the wheat are not taken first but the weeds are. The wheat is collected AFTER the weeds are collected and tied into bundles. Lou Click here to reply to this post
A person can seek God and ask Him to show them what the scriptures say and His promise to them is that he will show them the truth. I heard of the controversy and did just that not caring what was true. I was not a member of a church that taught any of the positions. So are you saying God did not keep His promise to show me the truth. Can you say you searched and prayed for years not caring what the truth was and not being part of a group that believed one way or the other; in other words no conflict of interests. I do not fear the the great tribulation. As Paul says in 2 Cor 1: 8We do not want you to be uninformed, brothers, about the hardships we suffered in the province of Asia. We were under great pressure, far beyond our ability to endure, so that we despaired even of life. 9Indeed, in our hearts we felt the sentence of death. BUT THIS HAPPENED THAT WE MIGHT NOT RELY ON OURSELVES BUT ON GOD, WHO RAISES THE DEAD. I have already suffered great tribulation that was far more than I could endure. And I have been saved by the God who raises the dead. We need not fear any tribulation. Lou Click here to reply to this post
They are not all Israel....
Posted On: 12/17/07 12:01:38 AM
Age 45, NJ
The Israel controversey is one in which I desire all to read Hebrews VERY carefully. Then read Galatians. After those two letters there can be no more argument about who "Israel" is... NO ONE WILL ENTER HEAVEN APART FROM TRUSTING JESUS AS MESSIAH. As to Mr Hagee, that book read "charletan " from the "get go." Click here to reply to this post
Will he lose his reward?
Posted On: 12/16/07 01:00:33 PM
Age 52, GA
"And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part. For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward." Mark 9:38-41 Click here to reply to this post
Chosen people?
Posted On: 12/16/07 12:09:58 PM
Age 51, NETHERLANDS
"While they [the Jews] are, indeed, God's chosen people, there is no other way of salvation than through the shed blood of the Lamb of God--the Messiah Jesus."
Are the Jews (still) God's chosen people?
Chosen, for what? Does that imply ALL Jews will eventually get saved? If not, what does 'chosen' mean then? If yes, then the doctrine of predestination (God predestined who will be saved and who not) is true and applicable to all the Jews. And John Hagee may be right!! (which I don't believe).
Another question to all of you, Darbyists: If the Jews are God's chosen people, does that imply all the other peoples (the gentiles) are NOT God's chosen peoples?? How pityful!
Have you ever studied the origin of dispensationalism? I encourage you all to do so. God bless, Joop Click here to reply to this post
RE: Chosen people?
Posted On: 12/21/07 01:05:29 AM
Age 56, OK
Where does people get that the jews are God's chosen people? I have never ever seen that anywhere in the scriptures. You asked the queston, "chosen for what"? That is what I would like to know. Preachers and people spout those chosen people words all the time, but no one explains what they are chosen for. Click here to reply to this post
Messiah misunderstanding
Posted On: 12/15/07 09:32:32 PM
Age 51, UT
I can not put words in Pastor Hagee's mouth but I think what he was trying to say about Jesus not being the Messiah has been misunderstood. I believe that what he was saying is that the jewish people were looking for a messiah that was going to come and destroy the romans and everything was going to be blissful. Like an alexander the great or a napolean. Jesus did not come to be a destroying messiah but as a Sacrificial Lamb to take away the sins of the world for all that believe and except his sacrafice.Rms 10 9 10. Therefore I think you can understand why they rejected him, He was not there version of their messiah. That doesn't make him to not be the messiah just they were wrong in what they were looking for. Click here to reply to this post
Hagee Controversy
Posted On: 12/15/07 07:47:46 PM
Age 66, NJ
My own father came from an Orthodox Jewish home but someone dared to tell him the "gospel truth" many years ago. Had they not done that, since he passed away in 2001, he could be in eternal flames now. Someone had to risk "offending" him and tell him the truth: He needed Jesus as his Messiah. They had to risk and preach the solid gospel to him. Thankfully, he thus died a believer.
Do you believe Abrahams Bosom still exist.? I Do -- Without being confronted by Jesus personally Paul would have been very content in his Judiasm. Jesus himself must open ther eyes to believe there is another beside the ONE God they were taught. Abraham Bosoms must exist where they will See Jesus for themselves and believe. You dont go to hell for being blind do you? Where can I get one of those T shirts-"There is ONE GOD and He aint You". Click here to reply to this post
THERE IS ONE AND ONLY ONE GOD
Posted On: 12/18/07 11:34:27 AM
Age 64, OH
You will NEVER reach any Jew who knows the Holy scriptures with your message. You say, "Jesus must open their eyes to believe there is ANOTHER besides the ONE God they were taught". Any Jew who knows the scriptures will NEVER believe what you say because the scripture disagrees with you. Isaiah 43:3 For I am the LORD, your God,the Holy One of Israel, your Savior; and 43:11 I, even I, am the LORD, and apart from me there is no savior. And again in Isaiah 9:6 Geneva Bible - " For unto us a child is born, and unto us a Son is given; and the government is upon his shoulder,and he shall call his name, Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Everlasting Father, The prince of Peace. - --We can see the child Jesus that will be born unto us is called these names by God. Notice the government IS upon his shoulder NOT WILL BE upon his shoulder. The Jews can plainly see from this scripture that God the Father who is the Only God will be their messiah but can you. The mistake of the Jews in the time of Jesus is that when God Almighty became a Man they did not recognize him as God Almighty because they had formed an idol in their own minds of who God was and Jesus did not look like their idol. Isaiah 45:5 I am the LORD, and there is no other; apart from me there is no God.-- The Jews need to see that the one and only god is Jesus Christ but can you see that Jesus is the one and only God. Lets pray that God opens all of our eyes. Lou Click here to reply to this post
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