With the exception of the other "H" word (hell), there is no more serious word in Christianity than: heretic.
While our beloved church fathers did not fear to label a heretic, we do. And rightly so. To label someone a heretic is to label them anathema; damned.
Disagreeing over non-essentials (spiritual gifts, communion, modes of baptism, etc.) is a healthy in-house debate that allows us to "agree to disagree" while maintaining fellowship. Disagreeing over essentials (such as the five solas) is another issue.
To be clear, if a teacher distorts the character and nature of God the Father, Son, Holy Spirit, salvation by grace alone through faith alone, or does not esteem the Bible to be the inerrant, infallible, inspired Word of God, we cannot be in fellowship with that person. They are indeed, anathema.
It has never been more difficult to determine when someone distorts these glorious doctrines. Today's emergent movement speaks a different English language. Black is purple and orange is wet.
Asking an emergent leader like Doug Pagitt to define justification is like nailing honey to a tree. Still, I gave it a try. Pastor Pagitt makes it as clear as he is able that there is no real hell and God will deal with good Buddhists and Muslims the same way He will deal with Christians.
Attached you will find an edited four minute version of our fifteen minute Way of the Master Radio "conversation." Would you please listen to it and answer the question, "Is this heresy?"
Like Jude, we are called to defend the faith given once for all time. Are Doug Pagitt's comments orthodox, aberrant (bad, but not damning) or flat out heresy?
Please click the Feedback button below and share your position. Please be pithy. Simply answer: "Orthodox," "Aberrant" or "Heresy," and then explain why in one clear sentence.
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Todd,
The interview was definitely disheartening.
It's disheartening to see people on fire for Christ, yet missing the mark by a mile. Pagitt definitely has an agenda for change but in a way that consistently ignores large portions of scripture. The core visionaries of the emergent church have definitely dabbled in mysticism, paganism, and grass root Roman Catholicism. However, I do not think all of its followers should be discredited or considered heretical. People like Shane Claiborne and Donald Miller have blessed and challenged thousands of Christians to seek God and His Word -and I will not apologize for their impact through Christ in my own life.
Equally disheartening was your responses to Pagitt. Your approach was unloving, inconsiderate, and I would argue, dishonoring to Christ. While I realize he gave you a hard time and it's easy to laugh at a man like Pagitt, there's no fruit in conversation like these. Treat him like you would like to be treated -with common human respect, courtesy, and patience. Your audience is pretty much the choir anyway.
I can honestly say I turned off the interview equally disappointed in both sides represented. So here's to future glory. :)
Peace Click here to reply to this post
Heresy
Posted On: 05/14/08 10:09:09 AM
Age 38, KS
My young children understand that when Jesus says, "I go to prepare a place for you..." he means a literal place. Click here to reply to this post
YES HE IS A HERETIC
Posted On: 02/20/08 10:08:55 PM
Age 37, MN
Doug Pagitt is definitely a heretic.
There is NO other way to be saved than to acknowledge and trust in Jesus Christ as Lord, and that he suffered and died and rose the third day to save me from my sins.
I would remind people that Doug came from the Baptist General Conference (Wooddale church) where he was a youth pastor, and Solomon's porch was affiliated with the Evangelical Covenant. I don't know if he still is, but up until very recently Solomon's porch was officially associated with the E Cov.
http://web.archive.org/web/20050313212157/solomonsporch.com/aboutus_page_group/affiliation.html
That was the last week (Nov 4, 2006) that they had their affiliation page up on their site. Since then it has been removed. The information there makes it sound as if the E Covenant adheres to the orthodox Christian faith, but in my experience, and when you think they are promoting things like Solomon's porch and Call to Renewal and other theologically liberal organizations, I think it becomes as Bob DeWaay calls the phenomenon, 'file cabinet orthodoxy.' Click here to reply to this post
The Devil's Handyman...?
Posted On: 02/19/08 03:07:09 PM
Age 50, CANADA
This man is totally ignorant of scripture. It is sickening to hear so called "christians" defend a heretic like this...just goes to show you that INDEED we are living in the end times...!
Only Christ Saves! Click here to reply to this post
Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 02/19/08 01:19:42 PM
Age 40, MN
I will have to go with yes, based on what I hear him say and not based on who pointed it out. Mr. Pagitt clearly teaches a heretical gospel. Click here to reply to this post
Doug Pagitt: Heretic or not?
Posted On: 07/06/08 10:09:33 AM
Age 55, SC
Todd Friel is the real heretic here. He is the one who preaches a false gospel that is man centered. He has taken Christ off of the thrown and made man the author of salvation. Hebrews 12 says that Jesus Christ is both the Author and the Finsher of our faith - NOT MAN!! Todd Freiel needs to repent of his false gospel message and teach the truth of God's Holy Word. Click here to reply to this post
Sickening
Posted On: 02/17/08 06:07:12 PM
Age 43, MT
This is just sickening and shows how far from compassion WoTM has gone. regardless to the results I hope people will note that this is inappropriate on so many levels.
Todd is one of the rudest people I have heard on the "Christian" radio. To "judge" in this way by this interview, shows that there is a real lack of "judgement" at WoTMR. It also shows a self righteousness and a judgmental spirit that is very ungodly if not satanic. Click here to reply to this post
Incoherent
Posted On: 01/24/08 09:38:55 AM
Age 40, TN
Heretic. I feel pain for Doug as he rambles incoherently in this interview. For a fair and measured response to the philosophy that lies behind Doug Pagitt's ramblings, try D. A. Carson's excellent "Becoming Conversant with the Emerging Church". Click here to reply to this post
Jesus Seminar
Posted On: 01/05/08 04:22:16 AM
Age 40, MO
I became aware of the Zeitgeist Movie from my sister who said it has shaken her faith in the Bible. It is a conspiracy theory movie about a historical Jesus, 9/11, and the banking industry. When researching this as to why in the world this would shake the faith of a true convert I came across the "Jesus Seminar"- 200 Bible scholars who research a historical Jesus. When reading the stuff they believe (Jesus was an itinerant wise man not a Jewish Rabbi. Didn't die a substitute for sinners or rise from dead but preached a "social gospel" instead in parables and aphorisms-pithy sentences.) This sounded very much like the Emergent church rhetoric!!! Reading on just like Doug Pagitt on hell not really being a place with their Process theology. Eschatology should be engaged in the 'process of becoming' rather than waiting for external and unknown forces to bring about destruction! Scary stuff! Regenerated Christian AWAKE! Redeem the time!!! Click here to reply to this post
Speaking of Church Fathers...
Posted On: 12/20/07 05:27:00 PM
Age 33, OK
In early Christianity, a heretic was not someone who merely disagreed (as there was such a variety of opinions at the time), but a heretic was defined as someone who was willing to split Christ's church over that disagreement. I hope this is not what is happening here, because if it is, then YOU are all heretics in your vitriolic and mean-spirited condemnations of Rev Pagitt. What do metaphysics matter when it comes to our common realities on the ground?
In the spirit of prooftexting, consider Micah 6:8 - "And what does the LORD require of you?
To act justly and to love mercy
and to walk humbly with your God." Click here to reply to this post
Re: Doug Pagitt. Heretic or Not?
Posted On: 11/28/07 11:40:15 AM
Age 28, MI
I'm an ingnorant fool when it comes to understanding the differences between emergent, orthodox, fundamentalist. But I'm a fool in love with our LORD God, our Creator, our Savior. As I read through your postings, my heart groans within, it cries out to our LORD to save us from all that has deceived us. I believe that DP and others like him have been deceived. To me, there is no debate. It matters not what I say about this issue...the only thing that matters is the truth. God's truth. Deep in our hearts...in that quiet stillness that resides within, the truth can be found if we have the courage and the humilty to face it. If we are honest with ourselves before God, we all know what the truth is on this issue...so the question that is begged from us, is not who is right and who is wrong, but rather what is next? What is it that God would have us do with this truth? How will we go about changing lives for him? That is an answer to be found within your heart and decided between yourself and God. Click here to reply to this post
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