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How secure is our salvation?



Posted: 10/23/2007

How secure is our salvation?

By Steve Cornell

http://thinkpoint.wordpress.com/

“Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.” (Matthew 7:13-14).

Can a person be sure that he or she is going to heaven? Is it possible to lose your salvation? Do true believers persevere in faith to the end? Perhaps you grew up under the teaching: “Once saved, always saved.” Or, maybe your Church taught that believers can lose their salvation if they exercise their free will and walk away from Christ. But what does the Bible teach about this?

The Bible clearly teaches that salvation is a free gift from God (see: Ephesians 2:8-10). It is not based on “works of righteousness which we have done” (Titus 3:5). The eternal security of salvation is the logical conclusion of a works-free salvation. Simply stated, “Salvation by works is insecure; salvation by grace is secure!” Although everyone saved by grace possesses a secure salvation, many lack assurance of their security. Assurance is the practical response to the biblical teaching on security. The following points clearly teach that salvation is secure. Reflect on them to strengthen your faith in the security of God’s salvation.

A. The keeping power of God (Jn. 6:39-40; 10:27-29; Jude 24; Phil. 1:6; I Cor. 10:13; II Thess. 3:3; II Tim. 1:12; I Pet. 5:10).

B. The promise of Christ (Jn. 6:37; 10:27-29 - cf. statement in Heb. 7:25). Concerning John 10:27-29, Millard J. Erickson makes a good point, “In the clause ‘and they shall never perish’ John uses the double negative… with the aorist subjunctive, which is a very emphatic way of declaring that something will not happen in the future. Jesus is categorically excluding the slightest chance of an apostasy by his sheep” (p. 996, Christian Theology).

Note: To teach an insecure salvation is to offend the work of the Good Shepherd—He does not lose any of his sheep!

C. The love of God (Rom. 8:38-39; I Jn. 4:10,19). Nothing shall separate us from God’s love!

D. The gift of eternal life (Jn. 3:15, 16, 36; 4:14, 36; 5:24,39; 6:27, 40, 47, 68)

E. The discipline of God (Heb. 12:5-13) Belief in an insecure salvation is an affront to the Fatherhood of God.

F. The perseverance of the saved: The teaching of the perseverance of the saved is a companion truth to the eternal security of the believer.

The Westminster Confession of Faith frames this point as follows: ”They whom God hath accepted in His Beloved, effectually called and sanctified by his Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace; but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.”

Theologian Louis Berkhof states it in the following manner: “Perseverance may be defined as that continuous operation of the Holy Spirit in the believer, by which the work of divine grace that is begun in the heart, is continued and brought to completion” (p. 546, Systematic Theology). (Mt. 10:22; Jn. 8:31; Heb. 6:9; 10:39; I Jn. 2:19)

The two primary marks of identification for a true believer are continuance in Christ’s word (Jn. 8:31) and chastening by the Lord (Heb. 12:5-12 - cf. also Mt. 7:20; I Jn. 3:9).

The problem many people have with eternal security results from confusing profession of salvation with possession of salvation. Jesus clearly taught that not everyone who said to Him “Lord, Lord” shall enter the kingdom of heaven. Many people claim to be Christians who have not truly appropriated the gospel to their lives. The issue is not the losing of salvation, but whether or not it was ever truly possessed.  

1. Points of clarification - In considering the teaching of perseverance, the following points of clarification are important:

a) All faith is not saving faith - (James 2:14 - see p. 67 on faith)

b) There will be superficial and temporary responses to the Word of God (Mt. 13:1-9, 18:23).

c) Profession of salvation does not always equal possession of salvation (Mt. 7:15, 21-23)

Note: The Bible does not justify identifying every person who makes a verbal profession of faith as a genuine believer. Please note that Jesus said “Many will say . . .” “But I will say to them, depart from me….” 

d) True faith produces fruit or good works (Mt. 7:15-20; 13:23; Ja. 2:17; Eph. 2:10).

Millard J. Erickson wrote, “. . . our understanding of the doctrine of perseverance allows no room for indolence or laxity. It is questionable whether anyone who reasons, `Now that I am a Christian, I can live as I please’, has really been converted and regenerated. Genuine faith issues, instead, in the fruit of the Spirit” (p. 996, Christian Theology).  

“The Lord will not save those whom He cannot command. He will not divide His offices. You cannot believe on a half-Christ. We take Him for what He is Christ the anointed Saviour and Lord who is King of kings and Lord of all lords! He would not be who He is if He saved us and called us and chose us without the understanding that He can also guide and control our lives” (A.W. Tozer, pp. 18-19, I Call It Heresy!).

e) The Scripture recognizes a distinction between temporary backsliding and real abandonment of the faith. Peter’s denial of the Lord is the best example of this in the NT. (Lk. 22:31-32 NASB or NIV). Thomas, as well as the other disciples, serves as an example of this after the crucifixion.

f) Although we cannot know a person’s heart, we are not left without any ability to evaluate the condition of another.

Ultimately the words of II Timothy 2:19 should be our position as we apply the scriptural measures: 

The following objective measures are provided for examination:  

1) The primary direction and characteristics of the person’s life: I Jn. 3:9 – “No one who is born of God practices sin . . .” Mt. 7:20 – “You will recognize them by their fruits”.

2) Works of the flesh vs. the Fruit of the Spirit - Gal. 5:19-24.

3) The wisdom from below vs. the wisdom from above Ja. 3:12-18.

4) The works of darkness vs. the fruit of the Light - Eph. 5:5-11.

5) The unrighteous lifestyle - I Cor. 6:9-11.

6) Love for the word vs. love of the Father - I Jn. 2:15-17.

7) Love for the brethren - I Jn. 3:14.

8 ) Keeping God’s commandments - I Jn. 2:4, Titus 1:16.

Summary:

If the overall direction and characteristics of a person’s life is described by the negative categories above, the person does not have any firm reason to believe that he or she is saved. He may hold to a prayer that he prayed, but if his life testifies against his profession—the apostle Paul’s word apply: “Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves.” (II Cor. 13:5). “What use is it, my brethren, if a man says he has faith, but he has no works? Can that faith save him?” (James 2:14).

While it is distinctly possible for a true believer to have serious movements of disobedience and unfruitfulness, the focus of the lists above is on the primary emphasis of his life (Rom. 7:19; I Jn. 2:1; II Pet. 1:5-10).

Subjective Measures:

According to Hebrews 3:12-14, an apostate will have an attitude of defiance and rebellion. This is true except in the case of those whom Satan disguises (Mt. 7:15; II Cor. 11:13-15). If an individual in question displays very little shame or sorrow regard to sin, and very little desire for God and His Word, we should be concerned (II Cor. 7:10-11; I Pet. 2:1-3).When we are trying to reach someone in question, it may be helpful to point him to these passages to prompt him toward healthy self-examination. The person who openly practices sin without repentance in the areas stated above should be warned not to profess to others any identification with Christ.

II Tim. 2:19b, “Let everyone who names the name of the Lord abstain from wickedness.”

2. A closing question:

“If it is impossible for a true believer to ultimately fall away, as has been demonstrated, why are serious warnings addressed to believers?

Sometimes in our effort to preserve a non-works, eternally secure salvation, we fail to realize how close someone can come to salvation without ever really obtaining it. People can come into the Christian community and culturally adjust by learning acceptable practices and words, and yet deceive both themselves and the community as to the reality of their salvation.The most sobering illustration of this is Judas. In John 13:21, Jesus revealed to the twelve that one of them would betray Him. Verse 22 informs us that they were unsure about which one He was referring to. Judas had so cunningly hidden his true identity that none of the others immediately thought of him. In fact, a parallel gospel informs us that “each one began to say to Him, ‘Surely not I, Lord?’” (Mt. 26:22.

If we acknowledge the security of salvation and the perseverance of the saved, what is the purpose of warnings about falling away and exhortations to continue in the faith (Heb. 3:13; Acts 14:22)? Are these unnecessary? If so, Why?

The following suggested purposes of these warning and exhortations prove helpful:

a) The warnings are directed to certain ones in the larger assemblies who were contemplating a return to Judaism (Heb. 6:11-12; 10:32-35).

b) The warnings balance man’s responsibility with the work of God thus bringing the whole matter into focus (cf. II Pet. 1:10).

c) The warnings encourage healthy self-examination (e.g. Jesus reveals that one will betray Him)

d) The warnings serve a preventative purpose. They are instrumental as a divine means of keeping believers on the right path.

e) The warnings expose the ones who depart as being apostates (I Jn. 2:19)

f) The warnings indicate the danger of the hardening effect of sinning against the light of God’s revelation.

g) The warnings do not prove that a true believer can commit apostasy (cf. Heb. 6:9-11; 10:39).

In conclusion, “…it is said that Scripture records several cases of actual apostasy (I Tim. 1:19,20; II Tim. 2:17,18; 4:10; II Pet. 2:1,2; cf. Also Heb. 6:4-6). But these instances do not prove the contention that real believers in possession of true saving faith, can fall from grace, unless it be shown first that the persons indicated in these passages had true faith in Christ, and not a mere temporal faith, which is not rooted in regeneration. The Bible teaches us that there are persons who profess the true faith, and yet are not of the faith” (L. Berkhof, p. 549, Systematic Theology). 

Steve Cornell

 

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Reader Feedback

Re: How secure is our salvation?
Posted On: 11/29/07 02:48:21 PM Age 50, CA
OSAS, perserverence of the saints, or eternal security all have the connotation that once you have believed in Jesus you can never loose your salvation. God created angels and man with a free will. On third of the angels chose to rebel and left their original state and followed Satan. Man as well from the beginning had a choice and chose to disobey (Adam & Eve). To say that once you accept Jesus (believe in Him, you can never stop believing in Him would mean that free will is only one direction. You can choose to believe (have faith in) Jesus, but then you cannot ever stop believing? That would mean that we now have no choice. I personally do not buy that. The word tells us after we REPENT, that God fills or baptizes (to submurse) us with the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is referred to as the Comforter who comes to convict the world of guilt-John 16:7-8 & guide us in all truth John-16:13. The Holy Spirit (our helper) who will teach us all things & reminds us- John 14:26. He is the Spirit of Truth - John 14:15-16. The Holy Spirit is sent to those who repent & are obedient- Acts 2:38 & Acts 5:32. With His help we can have power over our sinful desires. That doesn't mean it will be easy. I think the correct definition of perserverence of the saints is that if you are truly a saint , then you will persevere not that you will persevere because you are a saint. This age old debate will go on and on, The concept that began in the mind of St. Augustine of Hippo in the 5th century and made popular by John Calvin in the 16th century is still being debated today. My only concern is that those who teach OSAS in a careless way may be guilty of being a stumbling block to many who think they are saved, yet are not. The important issue is ARE YOU SAVED, not what side of the fence you stand on in is OSAS doctrine. I think two very good criteria are John 15:1-10. To paraphrase. Jesus is telling His own to remain in Him, that we can not do anything in ourselves and that if we DO NOT remain in Him (ongoing present tense) we will be cast aside vs 6. (If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thown away and withers; such branches are picked up, and thrown into the fire and burned). The other is the parable of a Tree and It's Fruit. Mat 7:15-23. Also in Mat 3:10. Matthew warns us that we must be bearers of good fruit. The works do not save us! Works without faith is DEAD! However if we are truely the Lords, the evidence will be good fruit. In vs 3:8 (Produce fruit in keeping with repentance). This is not a one time repentance but an ongoing repentive heart. I urge everyone who calls themselves a Christian, no matter where you stand on this issue, to do a self examination of yourselves. What does your fruit like? Remember now that God see's the heart of man, so let us not fool ourselves, our deeds may look clean on the outside, but what does the inside look like. In Luke 11:39, again Jesus is warning the Pharisees (religious leaders - obviously they think they are saved), that even though they clean the outside of the their cup and dish (their deeds), but their insides are full of greed and wickedness (their hearts, thoughts, motives). God searches the hearts & minds of men - Psalm 7:9. We need to take every thought captive to make it obedient to Christ 2 Cor 10:5. Paul urges us not to conform to the pattern of this world but to be transformed by the renewing of our minds Rom 12:2. In James 1:14-15 we are warned (but each of you is tempted, when by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, It gives birth to sin, and when sin is full grown, gives birth to death). This is a letter to brothers not unbelievers. The key word is to abide (remain) in Christ Jesus. Are you abiding???
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Re: How secure is our salvation?
Posted On: 10/26/07 03:18:48 PM Age 44, PA
Beware that NO man deceive you with the "philosophy" of men and not after Christ (Col 2:8). If you are trusting in the OSAS cliche' and not after Christ you may have all of eternity to regret it.
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  1. Re: Re: How secure is our salvation?
    Posted On: 10/29/07 08:10:40 PMAge 55, NE
    We're clinging to the promise made by Jesus Christ that those who believe in Him have ETERNAL life. Once again, you have to believe that "eternal" means something other than "eternal" in order to believe that we can lose what God has granted us ETERNALLY.
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Re: How secure is our salvation?
Posted On: 10/26/07 02:24:46 PM Age 55, GA
God can not brake a promise John 3,16.
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  1. Re: Re: How secure is our salvation?
    Posted On: 10/27/07 06:30:06 AMAge 50, NETHERLANDS
    God cannot break a promise. But WE can. So you answer this question: Can a Christian remain saved by chosing to live an unholy life: like stealing, visiting harlots, committing adultery, even killing? In other words, can we live like unsaved people in the world, denying Jesus when asked what we believe, and still remain saved? Yes or No?
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    1. Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation?
      Posted On: 11/02/07 03:56:50 PMAge 55, NE
      Do you ever commit sins that you aren't aware of? If so, how do you know they aren't enough to condemn you to Hell? How big a sin and how many sins are enough to condemn you? What if you die and haven't had time to confess known sins? Are there different classes of sin in God's eyes? I'm not talking about consequences of sin in our lives but how God views sin. Are the Catholics right, are there mortal and venial sins? Have you ever committed a sin that was great enough to cause loss of salvation? If so, how did you get it back?
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      1. Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation?
        Posted On: 11/07/07 01:23:41 PMAge 50, NETHERLANDS
        Not all sins will cause people thrown into hell. Like worrying (too) much, or being rude to my wife because of a bad mood. In revelation some sins are mentioned which will cause people being thrown into hell: murder, adultery, etc. So I believe there is a degree of sins. Christians who commit those types of sin are on the way to hell. It is however possible to repent. See David, who committed both murder and adultery. But he repented. Also look at the parable of the prodigal son. He WAS DEAD, cut off, on his way to hell, actually he had to feed the pigs, (images of demons) and BECAME LIFE AGAIN (after he repented). Demas, a true Christian, went astray. Scripture did't tell he repented, so he might be lost forever! God bless, Joop
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        1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation?
          Posted On: 11/08/07 06:45:57 PMAge 55, NE
          You place categories on sin that the Lord doesn't. How many of your sins did Christ die for, just the "little" ones? If you look in Revelation it mentions liars as being kept out of Heaven. How big a lie and how many? Isn't that a pretty "minor" sin? If you look in Galatians 5, Paul leaves it open to "such like" in the sin category. You take a Roman Catholic view of sin. Mortal and venial - some will slip by and some will send you to Hell. You mention David. How was it that he repented? The Lord was gracious and sent His prophet to confront him. So the man after God's own heart failed and was restored to the joy of his salvation (Psalm 51). In your view, he was lost during the interval. So how is it that he was able to be "re-saved" when Hebrews 6 makes it clear that such isn't possible? Have you ever sinned greatly enough to lose your salvation? I find that those who believe that loss of salvation is possible are never candidates for it. Your sins aren't great enough to lose yours (being rude to your wife, etc.) but others are. Why is that?
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          1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation?
            Posted On: 11/11/07 12:08:57 PMAge 50, NETHERLANDS
            Thanks for your answers. You mentioned many, many issues. I won't answer them all I think. First: "Your sins aren't great enough to lose yours (being rude to your wife, etc.) but others are. Why is that" My response: You don't know which my sins are, I just gave some examples, like being rude to my wife because of my bad temper. Of course, the Lord wants me to repent, and to apologize to my wife. So I would have to obey. If not, eventuelly my marriage could be in danger. Suppose, I am rude to my wife and the next moment I die of a heart attack. Would I go to hell because of that? I don't think so. Suppose, I am visiting harlots and while doing so I die of a heart attack. (I suppose that could easily happen...). Would I go to hell. Of course the Lord is the Judge, however according to what Revelation says...I am not sure. Did Christ die for all my sins? He did. Also ask yourself: Did Christ die for all the sins of the world? He did. Next question: why isn't the whole world saved? Because not everybody will repent and ask forgiveness. Did Christ die for all my sins? He did. Does that mean I automatically have been forgiven? Also for future sins? No. I have to repent and ask forgiveness every time I sin. If I would have been forgiven for every future sin I could commit, I could live an immoral life, enjoying being a sinner. And I don´t believe that is what scripture teaches. God bless, Joop Final remark for now: The 'little' sins aren't slipped by. That's not what I meant! We have to repent of all types of sins!
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Re: How secure is our salvation?
Posted On: 10/25/07 08:27:59 PM Age 64, OH
1st - On one hand the promises of Jesus are completely true. Jesus says whoever calls upon His Name will be saved. Jesus also whoever gives up their life will gain their life. Whoever calls upon The Creator and gives their life to Him will be saved as He promised. Jesus holds them in His hand and no one can remove them. That would include the person saved. If this is not true then we would not be saved by grace but by our works of not leaving Christ. We are saved 100% by grace and nothing else. If it was based on my not failing to remain in Christ then I would fail because their is nothing good within me. The scriptures make it very clear that we are saved totally by GRACE. 2nd - But the whole creation is awaiting for the sons of God to be revealed. We are all part of the whole creation are we not. That means the sons of God are not revealed to any of us. So I can not be "sure" that I am saved but if I gave my life to Jesus then it is "sure" that i am saved. Jesus is sure to save anyone who has given their life to Him but Only Jesus knows who has given their life to Him. I have hope and the evidence of the Holy Spirit within me BUT I still Hope and am not sure within myself. But if I have given my life to Him then He is sure to save me. 3rd - I ask Jesus to save me almost every day. I put my trust in Him and NOT the fact that I have evidence that I am saved. Sometimes I feel very confident and some other times I do not feel confident at all. But my trust is not in my feelings but in the Lord Jesus Christ. I trust the Lord Jesus Christ to save me and I trust Him to make me want to keep asking Him to save me. I put ALL MY HOPE IN HIM. Lou
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Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
Posted On: 10/24/07 01:30:26 PM Age 50, NETHERLANDS
Most, if not all arguments used to 'prove' OSAS / perseverance of the saints are out of context. I'll give you just one example: C. The love of God (Rom. 8:38-39; I Jn. 4:10,19). Nothing shall separate us from God’s love! Now that is a false argument, for SIN can and WILL separate us from God's love. You just look what happened in paradise. Why will some people end up in hell? It is because of SIN and/or not willing to repent. Look in the bible what will happen to those who deny Jesus, who commit adultery, the whoremongers, etc and those who receive the mark of the beast! Yes, it is true: God is love; and yet some people end up in hell, forever separated from God's love! God bless, Joop
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  1. Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
    Posted On: 10/26/07 05:43:09 PMAge 55, NE
    Once again I ask: What do eternal and everlasting mean? Do they mean temporal and for only a finite time? Is Jesus to be trusted when He states that we have eternal life through faith in Him? If it doesn't last forever then it isn't eternal. Your problem is with the Lord of salvation and what He clearly says in His Word.
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    1. IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD
      Posted On: 10/27/07 09:32:24 AMAge 64, OH
      Dear brother do you want to call the Bible The Word. The scriptures call The Lord Jesus Christ the Word and he is The One who spilled His blood for you and for me. He is the creator of all that exists and is the Only God there is. Jesus never called the Bible the "Word" but called it the scriptures. Can we call the creation and The Creator by the same name. The scriptures did not shed any blood for you or for me. The scriptures are on paper and when we read them while we are humble and seeking The Lord Jesus; then the Word truly speaks to us through the scriptures. There is no other savior except for Jesus Christ as the scriptures proclaim. No One deserves The Title of The Word except for The Lord Jesus Christ who is the Lamb of God. The Only One who is worthy in all of creation is The Lord Jesus Christ and nothing in this universe compares to Him. Lou
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      1. Re: IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD
        Posted On: 10/31/07 09:17:42 PMAge 55, NE
        In John 17:17, for instance, Jesus says that God's Word is Truth. What is He talking about? I'm not sure what the big deal is. I'm certainly not trying to deny that Jesus Christ is the Savior Who shed His blood to redeem us. The written Word is simply the revelation of the living Word. In some ways they are inseparable. How can we know the living Word if we don't have the written Word?
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        1. Re: Re: IN THE BEGINNING WAS THE WORD
          Posted On: 11/01/07 11:03:46 PMAge 64, OH
          I think the nature of God is a very big deal. I am not trying to even disagree but only trying to make you think. Yes Jesus said The Word was Truth; but Jesus is the Truth. The Bible can sanctify no one, for a Book can not act. Only Jesus The Author of The Book can sanctify. We are to worship the Creator and not the creation. Jesus is the Creator and the Book is part of the creation. Lou
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    2. Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
      Posted On: 10/27/07 06:21:18 AMAge 50, NETHERLANDS
      Your problem is that you are mixing conditional promises with onconditional promises. So I will ask [you] once again: Will everybody (Christians included)go to hell when they accept the mark of the beast (Yes or No)?
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      1. Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
        Posted On: 10/31/07 09:13:49 PMAge 55, NE
        So you're telling me that sometimes when God says something is eternal that it isn't really eternal?
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        1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
          Posted On: 11/01/07 01:03:47 PMAge 50, NETHERLANDS
          Please, answer my question.
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          1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
            Posted On: 11/02/07 03:52:12 PMAge 55, NE
            I don't believe that any Christian will take the mark. Firstly, I don't believe that the Church will be here to even have the chance (but that's another issue). Secondly, I believe that believers are capable of great sins. I don't believe that they will live in those sins. I believe the issue isn't once saved always saved but perseverance to the end. Only God knows for certain who are His, outside of the Spirit bearing witness to each of us that we are His. Now can you tell me what eternal means? Is it forever or not? What does Jesus mean in John 3 when He uses that word? Does He mean you might have eternal life? If so, why isn't He plain on the matter? What is everlasting? Does it mean everlasting or something else? If you have this life He promised and lose it then by definition it wasn't eternal, so what was it? "Conditional eternal life" is a contradiction in terms and isn't found in Scripture. If it's eternal it isn't conditional and if it's conditional it isn't eternal.
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            1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
              Posted On: 11/07/07 01:10:31 PMAge 50, NETHERLANDS
              Thanks for answering the question. So obviously you are a pretribber. Which I am not, but indeed, that's another topic. You 'don't believe that they will live in those sins'. Maybe you won't. Scripture teaches us however, many will fall away, moreover Scripture also mentions some examples of people who actually fell away, lose their faith etc. It's a bit like a marriage: Suppose I had the perfect wife and I promised her my faithfullness until death departs. Does that mean my marriage would last that long? For I have that promise from my perfect wife she would never depart me. Am I not able to break my vows? I am. And what will happen to the promise: till death depart? Gone, not because I just lose like that, no, it would be lost because of infidelity. Look around, and watch those broken marriages, also Christian marriages. What happened to their promises 'till death depart'? So here we see an example of some sort of a conditional promise. God bless, Joop
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              1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
                Posted On: 11/08/07 05:59:03 PMAge 55, NE
                Could you now answer my questions please?
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                1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
                  Posted On: 11/11/07 12:24:45 PMAge 50, NETHERLANDS
                  Fair enough. When God promises something, His promises are eternal - forever! So God won´t fail his promises. However, there is one problem. Man can. Look at the promises God made to his elect people, Israel. Does that mean all Jews are saved now? No. And why is that? Because of their disobeydience they stepped outside the promises. As happened in the desert, when only Jozua and Caleb, being spies, stayed in God´s promises. The others, above 20 years old, had to die in the desert. When God created all the angels, Lucifer included, I am sure God created them all to praise Him for all eternity. The angels all knew that. And now, do all angels praise the Lord now? Not anymore! Is that because God broke a promise? No. Some angels rebelled and fell away, stepped outside God´s eternal promises. Hope I did answer your question, until we meet again...God bless, Joop
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                  1. Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: How secure is our salvation? It depends on you, not God
                    Posted On: 11/15/07 09:41:32 PMAge 55, NE
                    Let me simplify it. What do "eternal" and "everlasting" mean? How would you define those words?
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