Scripture encourages us to examine our hearts and motives on a constant basis. We are born with a wicked heart that must be in constant check with the Word of God. Recently, I have had a problem with the content of prayers at meal time in our family.
Growing up, before my family started attending church, we said a prayer before each meal. You could call it tradition or habit. As a result, this routine, token prayer time has been rooted in our family even before we were Christians. Because of my parent’s Catholic background, many times we recited the Lord’s Prayer. In Christianity, praying before meals or saying grace is a household staple. But just over the last few years I have noticed prayers at meal time were getting out of whack. Like everything else, I wanted to make sure this was honoring God.
For example, when I met a fellow pastor for lunch at McDonalds we both ordered off the value menu. After we sat down the prayer went like this, “Lord, I pray a blessing on the food we are about to receive. I ask you to let it be nourishment to our bodies. Bless everything we do. In Jesus name, Amen.” Nothing unusual, I had prayed the same prayer before 100 times. But sitting in front of me was a sandwich, fries and a large soda. An 1800 calorie meal that I know is not a healthy meal to eat. Did I expect God to magically remove the calories from this Big Mac and make it into a low fat, nutritious, Weight Watchers product? Did I need to baptize my fries in ketchup to make sure they are blessed? This is when I realized that what I was doing was wrong.
Giving the blessing is not about blessing the food, but offering thanks. I peeked at a few scriptures to see where we base this practice. I would say it started with the feeding of the 5,000 when Jesus gave a blessing that was not directed at the bread and fish, but to God. Secondly, in Matthew 26:26 KJV, this verse spurs on the belief that the food needed a blessing because some translations read, “And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, and blessed (it), and brake (it), and gave (it) to the disciples, and said, ‘Take, eat; this is my body.’” Now read the verse again without all of the “its.” It reads a little differently. Some versions leave the (it) out and the verse makes more sense. Also notice that they were already eating when Jesus offered thanks, whichis much different than our modern meal time prayers. The word “blessed” refers to giving thanks or praise. So, I can find no basis for blessing food in the traditional sense. It’s all about giving thanks and having a grateful heart. Our flesh seeks to be blessed but our spirit calls us to be a blessing to God through our obedience to His Word. We are not born with a thankful heart. All of my kids have come out of the package preset on selfish mode. I didn’t have to teach them to say “mine.”
I was hearing my kids praying the same way, over and over again, “Bless this, bless that.” One day following a meal time prayer I said, “That’s it! The food does not need a blessing. We are going to stop blessing the food!” My wife looked at me a little crazy but then I gave the reason. We need to give thanks for everything. Most importantly, what Jesus did for us on the cross and the blood that was shed for our sins. We should never pray without first exalting and giving praise to the one who provided us with everything.
God wants us to have a thankful heart, but it is very difficult in this rich nation where we live. Most of us eat at leisure, consuming three to four meals a day. How quickly we forget who provides. The last thing we need is another meal. Would my prayer and attitude be different if I hadn’t eaten for a week? Most definitely! I’m sure God cringes every time our greedy, self-centered prayers pollute the airwaves with meaningless words that lift up our food instead of Him.
The prayer before meals should be less about the food and more about our hearts before God. How can one prayer at a meal reveal one’s attitude? Instead of being thankful for what God provided, we have prayed in a self-centered way, not giving thanks, but saying, “Lord, please season the food to my liking.”
Obviously, this was a great teaching time for my kids but it was also an attitude check for me; I had not had an attitude of gratefulness, but of greed. My heart condition needed to be one of thanksgiving, not of a self-abstaining pride. Our pride is always looking to show its face when it is left unchecked. I would never want to approach God with an ungrateful heart, but that’s the direction my attitude was going.
In my own life I’m trying to rid myself of useless tradition and focus on honoring God in every area of my life. There is a new attitude during our family prayer time, one that is now more God-centered rather than food-centered.
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What's the problem Brannon lack of courage, or simply can't stand postings that hit too close to the truth? Do you really stand for the truth, or is it just a facade? I rarely post on your site anymore, because of this tendency towards cowardly censorship. You can dish it out, but you can't take it. Why is that Brannon? Be glad to debate you any time, if you have the courage... Surely, you know we have not been given the spirit of fear.
PTLJ! Click here to reply to this post
Alfred Eidersheim in his classic work: The Life and Times of Jesus the Messiah spoke about the blessing. The Jews had a standard blessing which Jesus likely used. As best as I can recall it went something like this: Blessed are You Yahweh, King of the Universe, who causes the earth to bring forth its fruit (i.e. food). Assuming that is correct it makes the blessing directed at God rather than our food, or health, conversation or digestion. A significant difference. Click here to reply to this post
Re: God’s Neat, Let’s Eat?
Posted On: 06/20/07 08:09:00 AM
Age 67, MN
Your article reminds me of a book I read years ago entitled something like, "How Much Prayer Does a Hamburger Need?"
I agree with your deduction. Years ago my husband and I started the practice of lifting our filled plates of food slightly off the table with heads bowed offering it as a sacrifice to our Lord with thanksgiving. It eliminates the repetitious meaningless words and replaces them with a jester of honor and a thankful heart. Click here to reply to this post
Re: God’s Neat, Let’s Eat?
Posted On: 06/19/07 03:47:20 PM
Age 37, GA
I've had similar epiphanies regarding such things as ending prayers with 'In Jesus' name. Amen.'
It's just a habit. And do we really think if we utter the magic phrase that God is bound to honor our request? I guess some do, but ultimately 'In Jesus' name' really means to do something for Jesus, to be in his will, doing his will, and does not mean binding God to do our will because we uttered a magic phrase.
There's nothing we routinely do as part of our church service that is anything more than tradition. Why, we could have the sermon, then the singing! Click here to reply to this post
Re: God’s Neat, Let’s Eat?
Posted On: 06/19/07 12:33:17 PM
Age 56, MN
FIrst off I very much appreciate Rays thinking.
I do wish tho PEOPLE would stop saying this error, we are born with sin.
NO man is born with sin in them.
We are born ((( INTO ))) a world of sin.
MEN need to read the word better to see, the word says SIN entered ( the WORLD ) never did it say it entered men.
YET people say we are born with sin.
NO we are not, we become sinners, no one is born one.
the rest of the food thing i agree with. DONT say a prayer again and again without first thinking what your saying. Click here to reply to this post
Born DOA by Sin!
Posted On: 06/25/07 10:45:58 PM
Age 59, OR
Dear 56-MN, Not sure what Bible you're reading from, but it seems to be missing a number of verses so if you don't mind doing a little cutting & pasting, I'll give you a few off the top of my head: Job 5:7 Yet man is born unto trouble, as the sparks fly upward. Job 11:12 For vain men would be wise, though man be born like a wild ass's colt. Job 15:14 What is man, that he should be clean? and he which is born of a woman, that he should be righteous? Job 25:4 How then can man be justified with God? or how can he be clean that is born of a woman? Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies. Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me. [Please note that David's mother was not conceiving him during an act of sin, but rather, she was clearly conceiving him *into* sin at *conception*] It's about our NATURE! Jeremiah 13:23 Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots? then may ye also do good, that are accustomed to do evil. [The direct comparison is our nature to the nature of the Ethiopian's skin & the leopard's spots!] Ephesians 2:3 Among whom also we... ...**were by nature** the children of wrath, even as others. Romans 5:19 For as by one man's disobedience many **were made** sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. [NOT "became" sinners AFTER we entered into the world, but "were made" sinners **while we were yet in the loins of our father Adam** by his sin -- Compare the principle of imputation in that the Levitical priesthood is accounted as paying tithes in Abraham to the Greater. Heb. 7:1-11. "9 And as I may so say, Levi also, who receiveth tithes, payed tithes in Abraham. 10 For he was yet in the loins of his father, when Melchisedec met him." I hope this clarifies the doctrine of sin that our nature is DOA. Ask yourself this question: What died from Gen. 2:17 "for in **the day** that thou eatest thereof thou shalt **surely** die" over to 3:7? They were still alive physically but *something* surely did die *that day* & that was our spirit. Since God is our very life force He continued to sustain them physically with His "breath of life" but God had to withdraw His Holy Spirit that sustains the life of our spirit because it had become wicked by rebellion. In withdrawing, we are left dead; Eph. 2:1 "dead in trespasses and sins" & the dead cannot lift a finger to do *anything* to change their natural condition. In those moments when the Spirit of Life wafts over us, if we cry out: "Thou Son of David, have mercy on us", He saves. If we shun Him He can only leave us dead. Hope this helps. Dan RN Click here to reply to this post
Re: Born DOA by Sin!
Posted On: 06/29/07 07:05:28 PM
Age 56, MN
by the way DAN, no child is born DOA, either.
WE all have been given a MEASURE of faith, THAT we are BORN with, its called a CONSCIENCE.
NO one is DEAD at birth.
are yu a calvinst?
adam and eve were created perfect.
they had NO sin in them and NO SIN nature.
Tell me Dan, if you can why did they sin?
THEY didnt have a nature TO sin, like your trying to tell me.
THEY were not conceived in a world of sin, like you said DAVID was.
Dan, the answer would be, they had the POWER of choice and GOD placed Satan in the GARDEN to TEMPT THEM.
ALL part of GODS plan DAN.
PLease do NOT try to make GOD the one who CREATES sinners ok, GOD will not be happy about that.
By your mistaken THEORY, all the SIN done is because we are already created sinners in the womb.
that DEAR DAN is false teaching.
SO GOD created Murders, and rapists and drunks and THEIFS.
that is a far fetched in correct way of looking at GOD, its sheer nonsense DAN.Read the bible with the use of the HOLY SPIRIT and he will reveal truth to you.
by the way DAN, we sin( bible says sin is a TRANSGRESSION of the LAW ) because we CHOSE to sin, not because we have to SIN< because ADAM did pure hogwash. Click here to reply to this post
Born DOA, AKA Still-born, Still Dead by Sin!
Posted On: 07/02/07 03:41:41 AM
Age 59, OR
Dear 56-MN, I notice that you only responded to the one verse that you could spin & slipped past the ones referring to our *Nature*, & of being "*made sinners*", & "the doctrine of imputation". 58:3 "out of contex"? Please enlighten me if you have verses different from mine that make that verse say something other than what it plainly says. You say: "...not conceived in a world of sin, like you said DAVID was". Pardon? I think you're quoting yourself: "We are born ((( INTO ))) **a world of sin**.", since I said "conceiving him *into* sin" [nature], NOT **a world of sin**. Are you putting words in my mouth? Your thinking: if man has a sin nature, ergo, "GOD the AUTHOR Of sin" is YOUR OWN logic & non-sequitor since I said nothing on that subject. You either misread or skipped the last 7 sentences. But Ok, I'm game here, so let's use your logic. You have already agreed that mankind is "...estranged from the womb: they 'GO' astray as soon as they be born..." So, having entered into "a world of sin", as you describe it, in pristine condition, when, exactly, does man become "dead in trespasses and sins". Is it when he takes his 1st breath of 'sin-ladened' air, or is it 1st human contact when he falls into the Dr's 'sinful' hands [Note that he is passing thru his 'sinful' mother's birth canal 1st]. Remember, if you move forward to any distant time then YOU have a problem with "from the womb" & "as soon as"! Also, it might be helpful to note that the 2 words *'GO' astray* in English is a one word verb in Hebrew, Ta'ah, Strong's # 8582, translated more often; to "err" 17x, as well as astray 12x, wander 10x, stagger 2x & carrying additional meanings of: "to be made to & to cause to". As near as I can tell, your original 'precept' is apparently 'only' from Rom. 5:12. Since we are *all* sinners, sinning constantly & even 'unknowingly', according to the Bible [Esp. Rom. 5:20, 7:7, --just starting w/2 vs in the same very book--], Rom. Ch. 5 thru 7 [& especially Ch. 7] talks of 'sin' singular as a 'nature', part & parcel with the 'flesh', a cause of death, NOT 'sins' plural as in the other epistles that we need to confess daily. If this 'contagion' is 'in the world' but not part of our nature, as you conceive of it, exactly *how* & *when* do we become infected, in that we all [even innocent infants] *die* [Rom. 5:14] if "something" wasn't passed on thru the flesh? How is it that NO-ONE is ABLE, not just to desire & choose to, but to actually live without 'sin', if we are as 'pristine' as Adam **once** was? Romans, above all, is very clear: Being "born again" in the 2nd Adam restores us *'spiritually'* to the 1st Adam's **pre-fall** condition, but does not deliver us yet from our fallen, fleshly **Nature** that we bodily live in. Also, in the fact that you felt the need to bring up homosexuality, the Bible is quite clear; God made Adam & Eve, not Adam & Steve. I am also very curious as to which Bible you have where "GOD **placed** Satan in the GARDEN to **TEMPT** THEM"?... As an observation; from the # of CAPs in your replies, the mis-reads, mis-quotes, & 'free-thinking' that you did in my behest, you really do seem to "have your panties in a bunch", so to speak on this topic, which might give me a better perspective on your method of biblical interpretations... If & when you answer the rest of the verses I had 1st challenged you with, referring to our *Nature*, of being "*made sinners*", & "the doctrine of imputation", I will also answer your questions of God, creation, & the sin nature. In Logos Truth, Dan RN Click here to reply to this post
Re: Born DOA, AKA Still-born, Still Dead by Sin!
Posted On: 07/05/07 12:57:50 PM
Age 56, MN
hello Dan,
where does the bible say the mothers birth canal is sinful?
Innocent babys die because this is a fallen world.
the world was cursed with sin.
the body wasnt cursed with sin, unless your attempting to say to have a baby with labor pains is sin now too.
Or working and sweating is sin too, I dont recall seeing those things listed as sin in the bible. DO YOU?
God didnt place the devil in the Garden hey?
Im sorry was it the state of NEW YORK then.
I see you think, GOD isnt in control at all times then, and you have yet to come to see the plan of GOD for men.
Again, your take on the word, is the same as many misguided people who chose to parrot error over the centurties.
No child have ever been created with sin in them.
Psalms 51:5 is not speaking of a mother conceiving a child in sin.
SHE is in the world of SIN< and conceiving a child.
NO child is seen as a sin.
Please take your MENS logic back to those who TAUGHT you HOW to think thru your head instead of your heart.
again
I dont need to answer any of your questions, they are coming from your intellect, and the bible is meant to be read thru the HOLY SPIRIT, that is why you err.
thank you Click here to reply to this post
Re: Born DOA, AKA Still-born, Still Dead by Sin!
Posted On: 07/06/07 05:36:02 PM
Age 59, OR
Dear 56-MN, Thank you for making my point again by your non-responsive answer. In the logic "of your heart", repeating a non-responsive answer over again confirms "your concept" as right, makes my scriptures vss wrong, & somehow slips you past answering 58:3. So you DO have a problem with "from the womb" & "as soon as"! You "dont need to answer any of [my] questions" about man's "nature" & "made sinners" because you can't find any scriptures that support "your concept" that proceeds from the "logic of your heart". In addition to putting words in my mouth *again*, you put them in 51:5: "SHE is in the world of SIN", which I can't find in the English or the Hebrew! You somehow remind me of a certain "Age 56, MN" [http://www.christianworldviewnetwork.com/feedback.php?&ArticleID=2145 , Re: The Offence of the Cross, Posted On: 06/12/07 12:48:46 PM], that whined about getting "banned from almost every room i enter" & tried to compare himself to Ray Comfort... The scriptures say what they mean & *mean* what they say! "But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken." In His Truth, Dan RN. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Born DOA, AKA Still-born, Still Dead by Sin!
Posted On: 07/10/07 11:56:24 AM
Age 56, MN
Dan, you referred to the post i made about being banned from (s0 called Christian sites)
Dan, may I please with your permission, ask WERE you ever in them? Do u know what they are teaching? Why the personal attack when you know nothing about them.
The Lord knows WHY I was banned from them DAN. BEcause PEOPLE in them LIKE you Dan, became angry with me, WHEN I didnt go along with incorrect interpeting of the bible.
Again, while this may be hard for you to understand, Adam and EVE DID NOT need SIn in them, NOR did they need a SIN NATURE in them to sin.
THEY had neither, now you want to say WE sin, because of a SIN nature put in us in the womb, or are you saying we sin, because we are born INTO a world, of sin and we chose to sin.
THE second would be correct.
Just because Preachers, have preached something incorrect for years DOESNT make it CORRECT.
WE need NO SIN NATURE TO SIN.
WE like adam and EVE CHOSE to sin.
THEY made a CHOICE to rebel against GOD, to do it THEIR way, and NO SIN NATURE was needed for them to DO THAT.
YOu cant seem to understand ONE doesnt need to HAVE a sin nature to sin, ALL ONE needs to be is HUMAN DAN, and we will sin, because MEN WANT to do things their way.
again, ADAM AND EVE had no HISTORY OF SIN in them, they needed NO PASSED down sin nature to sin, THEY did it ON THEIR own.
LOOK more carefully at the word, and try not to read into IT what yu want it to say. thank you Click here to reply to this post
Born DOA is bad, Staying DOA is tragic!
Posted On: 07/15/07 07:57:40 PM
Age 59, OR
Dear 56-MN, so far now you have 5 posts on this page and not 1 single scripture is cited that: 1. Supports your theory that comes from the "logic of your heart", or 2. Defeats the doctrine of man's fallen, sin nature. Your rehash of Ps 51:5 does not count for you as I gave it 1st to counter your error on our sin nature and since your "explanation" of what you **think it should say** does not match what it plainly says, it remains in my camp. How you "think" your talk about Adam's pre-fall condition is relevant to this debate totally escapes me since we are discussing mankind's **post-fall** nature and your constant repetition of it cannot move the pre-fall events into the post-fall arena [even if you do put it all in CAPS]. It is **after** Adam's fall we **were made** sinners. Rom. 5:19. Your thinking that I'm angry is amusing. I believe the psychologists refer to that as "projection" and judging from the amount of repetition in CAPS it seems that you do "have your panties in a bunch"... Back when I first saw this: [ArticleID=2172] Re: Is Baptism a Requirement for Church Membership?, Posted On: 06/19/07 11:56:28 AM Age 56, MN, "I 155,000% disagree. Jesus never commanded water for the GENTILE church" I had a very strong urge to respond, but something inside said to wait for a while. [I did not make the connection at the time. It was your posting style here that sent me wondering.] In the ensuing firestorm of postings a lot good scripture went back and forth, some also dealing with the gentiles and I came to realize that if a person followed that discussion with all that scripture and came away still holding onto such a patently absurd, unscriptural theory, they don't really want to come into the light of the Word. That's not amusing... That's tragic. Dan RN Click here to reply to this post
Re: Born DOA is bad, Staying DOA is tragic!
Posted On: 07/24/07 04:02:27 PM
Age 56, MS
Dear Dan,
are you keeping count is this 6 or 7 lol.
Dan my friend, you can quote scripture to me until the cows come home. Incorrectly.
The reasons we have so much fighting in the church today, comes from intellects trying to read the word thru their HEADS and not the HOLY SPIRIT Dan.
You TRIED to correct me on both points, one being born with sin, and second water baptism.
THERE is no sense for me to quote the word to a person, who will only read the bible thru their intellect, its a sheer waste of time.
Jim Eliff, is dead wrong about being water baptised for church membership, as others in the feedback told him.
SOrry Dan, your far wiser tho correct.
ANY church that would require you to do that today, you need to run away from.
ITS not biblical.
THIS new covenant we are under has no such thing in it, unless DAN, you of course what to make another attempt to add or twist the word to make it so.
ITS intellects cause the fights. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Born DOA by Sin!
Posted On: 06/29/07 06:56:12 PM
Age 56, MN
thank you Dan, for helping me make my point.
I appreciate your try at attempting to prove me wrong ok.
but it didnt work, because what you used you took out of contex and did not fully understand.
No child is born with sin in them.
WE go astray from birth speaking lies.
you are kidding correct.
FIRST off according to you DAN we are astray to begin with, yet the very verse you used proved you wrong.
They GO astray.
Your thinking, makes GOD the AUTHOR Of sin.
GOD never created anyone with SIN in them.
WIth your confused thinking, a Homosexual as reason to say they are born that way.
Please Dan, I ask you to pray for better discernment.
WE BECOME sinners JUST like adam and EVE became SINNERS.
NO one is created with SIN IN THEM.
thank you DAN for your deep desire tho to TRY to set me straight.
your path is crooked tho, read the word again more carefully ok, thank you Click here to reply to this post
Re: God’s Neat, Let’s Eat?
Posted On: 06/19/07 10:42:43 AM
Age 68, AL
Whether at McDonald's or Ruth's Chris Steakhouse, God is not examining the syntax of our prayer of "thanks", "grace", "blessing" or whatever you choose to call it. He is simply pleased that we are willing to humble ourselves and acknowledge Him before we partake of the meal.
Equally important, the act and expression of "saying grace" at home and/or publicly is a means of testimony to our family members and to anyone who happens to observe us, that we boldly proclaim our faith in a living, loving personal God.
Having said that, I personally think a short, unpretentious utterance with heads bowed, is very appropriate ... perhaps even more appropriate than a commitment to produce an original prayer that is exactly appropriate for each and every occasion. I'm not so sure God is impressed with that performance, either.
bfm Click here to reply to this post
Re: God’s Neat, Let’s Eat?
Posted On: 06/19/07 08:50:55 AM
Age 47, TX
Absolutely neat to see God's people struggle with honoring Him with words from a sincere heart!
While our family never really think of "blessing the food", we often find ourselves giving thanks for all kinds of things other than but also including the food before us. Being together in prayer at that time, we feel very free to ask for blessings in many areas and give thanks for all areas. Like the author , we can get a sense of needing refreshing from time to time to keep it real.
As we open our hearts before Him, it is becoming much easier for that flood of thanks to find it's way into the prayer. We are truely thankful for all He is doing in our lives.
Years ago, I took a Sunday school class of 2nd graders to McDonalds. As we sat down, I said " Let's pray ". One of the kids replied " Are we going to pray here?" My answer was " Are you thankful here?. Then yes, we are going to pray here." For some of us the habit of traditional prayer even has a location which is only at home or on holidays or if the family all eats together or at the table.
As we are told, it is good to examine ourselves and allow the Lord to do so on a regular basis. How else can we be discipled to His image?
Blessings,
Shirley Skidmore Click here to reply to this post
Re: God’s Neat, Let’s Eat?
Posted On: 06/19/07 08:50:15 AM
Age 47, TX
Absolutely neat to see God's people struggle with honoring Him with words from a sincere heart!
While our family never really think of "blessing the food", we often find ourselves giving thanks for all kinds of things other than but also including the food before us. Being together in prayer at that time, we feel very free to ask for blessings in many areas and give thanks for all areas. Like the author , we can get a sense of needing refreshing from time to time to keep it real.
As we open our hearts before Him, it is becoming much easier for that flood of thanks to find it's way into the prayer. We are truely thankful for all He is doing in our lives.
Years ago, I took a Sunday school class of 2nd graders to McDonalds. As we sat down, I said " Let's pray ". One of the kids replied " Are we going to pray here?" My answer was " Are you thankful here?. Then yes, we are going to pray here." For some of us the habit of traditional prayer even has a location which is only at home or on holidays or if the family all eats together or at the table.
As we are told, it is good to examine ourselves and allow the Lord to do so on a regular basis. How else can we be discipled to His image?
Blessings,
Shirley Skidmore Click here to reply to this post
Re: God’s Neat, Let’s Eat?
Posted On: 06/19/07 05:55:30 AM
Age 44, PA
Jesus said, when you pray, pray in secreat, but as allways traditions overide biblical commands. We are to be thankfull in "all" things but go into your closet and pray. I hate it when I see christians saying grace and then leave a small tip for the waitress. If you teach your unthankfull, unregenerate children to recite a tradition prayer, attent church then they are OK, everyone is just fooling everyone! Click here to reply to this post
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