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| Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God |
Posted: 05/07/2007
Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
The Atheist -vs- Christian Debate Provided Clear Evidence God Exists
A debate occurred recently on the existence of God, on the evening of Saturday, May 5th, 2007, at the Calvary Baptist Church in New York City. The event is to be broadcast in it's entirety on ABC News Now, May 9th at 2pm, EDT, and again on Nightline at 11:35pm.
The debate was moderated by Martin Bashir, the "Nightline" anchor.
For the Christian perspective we heard from Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron of the Way of the Master. For the Atheists we heard from Brian Sapient and his co-hort "Kelly." Each argued their perspective viewpoints on the question of the existence of God and answered questions put to them from the ABC News Now website, and audience respondents.
The ill-conceived notions of the debating Atheists made for a confusing and downright silly set of arguments. The platform for the debate had seemed simple enough but it proved to be too much for Brian Sapient and the young woman, who asked to be referred to as simply "Kelly", due to her stated fear of "reprisals." Brian and "Kelly" were so weak in their claims; they often resorted to making outrageously false statements. "Kelly" made the laughable comments like claiming all micro-Biologists unanimously agreed evolution is a provable fact, while Brian comically professed there are hundreds of transitional life-forms at the Museum of Natural History there in New York City!
I was at the debate as a reporter getting responses from the opponents and the crowd for the Worldview Weekend website ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com. My aim was to hear what the goals of the debaters were and to know whether the attendees believed their intended outcome had been accomplished. As many expected, Brian Sapient haughtily claimed victory while Kelly claimed offense, her best "argument" for the evening being an obviously staged "ward-robe malfunction", performed only feet in front of her Christian mother. Her stunt aroused the Atheists in the crowd to hoot like drunks in a bar; causing many to violate the Seventh Commandment right there in a Church. If Kelly and Brian's intention was to be irreverent and to cause others to stumble in sin, they succeeded only with the Lost, their own people. The Christians had respectfully looked away giving her time to recover herself honorably. The lack of respect Kelly showed for the place she was in and for those she and Brian were supposed to be debating didn't really surprise the executive member of the church, but had, instead, saddened him to see these Atheists could not have shown more civility and professional respect. But such was the tone from the Atheist side during the whole debate: derision, sarcasm and irreverence for a subject 90% of Americans hold dear: They were their own worst enemies.
But, thankfully, Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron ignored the pandering of the "Squad" members with judicious alacrity, even applauding their opponent’s ridiculous points. Ray explained very clearly the three points of the Christian argument for the proofs of God in his opening statement, repeating them often as the "intellectuals" seemed not to be able to understand. Ray and Kirk explained the evidence of Creation decrying a Creator; the evidence of Conscience professing a Rule Giver; and the scientific facts of the Bible proving out over the centuries to be wholly accurate, all demonstrating the genius of the claims Christianity makes. Kirk even pointed out some of the smartest men ever to walk the earth similarly acknowledged the same evidences: Albert Einstein, Sir Isaac Newton, and Copernicus, among others. Although Einstein was not a Christian he openly acknowledged the evidence of a Designer in the design. Most notable to this author is how Stephen Hawking has also acknowledged the same proofs as being hard to ignore.
Yet the atheist arguments proved so ludicrous as to be laughable. The idea that, "we are all transitional life-forms" was so illogical the ABC moderator, Martin Bashir, had to stop and call them on it, amid jeers and laughing form the largely Atheist crowd, ridiculing them for even attempting such nonsense.
All the debaters, except Kelly, felt further debates of similar formats would be helpful and worthwhile; Kelly's comments proved as juvenile as her actions.
Frankly, though I agreed with Tiffany Gelpi of ChangeYourCampus.com that the debaters did not change each other's minds, I was happy to note one of the Atheists I had previously interviewed that night, later asking me poignant questions, all alluding to his considering the claims of Christianity seriously in his tone and apparent appreciation for the claims Ray and Kirk had made for the proofs of God's existence and our resulting moral turpitude.
The point of this debate was not to prove the Christian God is the Only God, though Ray and Kirk did this very well in my opinion, but rather that the proofs of God existing are so obvious as to engender foolishness to deny the evidence .
I believe, as many who saw the debate in person did, the representatives for Christianity did exactly what they had set out to do, providing real evidence for logical consideration on the existence of God. After all, believing God exists is the precursor to the saving process, the Conscience spurring the sinner on to a reasoned Fear of God, to an understanding of His righteous Judgment, to a humbled repentant saving faith in Jesus, as their Savior, LORD and God.
I left the Atheist, who had sought my opinions out, now an admitted Agnostic, with the same comments Ray and Kirk left the viewers of this debate considering...
IF the claims of Christianity are true, that there is a God, a Designer plainly seen in the design of His creation; IF your Conscience decries a Law Giver you are accountable to; IF the Scientific, Prophetic and Moral claims in the Bible do indeed not only show that God IS but who that God is, and what He expects you to do, THEN...
WHAT DO YOU DO NOW?
Like the man at the feet of Jesus, Ray and Kirk's arguments leave the sinner asking, "What must I DO to be saved?
If you seek God with all of your heart you will find Him...
(Deuteronomy 4:29)
Patrick Burwell OnlyJesusSaves.com
Footnotes:
(1) Atheist Debate
(2) Deuteronomy 4:29
.If you do not desire to deliver the lost from Hell,
then whose are you?. .For Evangelism Resources, please visit LivingWaters.com. To learn how to share your faith biblically, simply and effectively begin here.
ll WayoftheMaster.com and Livingwaters.com materials and media are under copyright protection.
Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com
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Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/09/07 09:03:48 PM |
Age 37, NY |
Just saw the debate online. I thought both sides were evenly sophomoric in their approach. So it seemed fair. I thought Kirk and Ray would have tried harder. They just repeated what they have said over and over before. The banana, the ten commandments, appeals to fear and ignorance etc. They proved nothing scientific what so ever. Better luck next time.
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Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/08/07 03:00:36 PM |
Age 23, MN |
I like Way of the Master, Kirk and Ray, etc. I think they're style of evangelism is sorely missing from modern evangelism. But, I would never resort to them in a debate about the existance of God. I watched the DVD they made on evolution, it was rediculous. All they do is say how rediculous evultion sounds to them, and things like, "who wants to be related to a monkey, they eat sloppy" stuff like that. I saw a clip from WotM on "Jimmy Kimmel Live" where Ray argues that a proof of design is the banana, after all, it has it's own wrapper, and fits perfectly in a persons hand. C'mon, that's rediculous, i could play devils advocate and say in that case the Pinapple is evidence that God didn't want us to eat, or that the Cactus is evidence God is cruel, i mean, you're out in the desert, and there's a plant that has tons of water in it, but you can't touch it without getting pricked... The organizers of this debate should have looked at getting Ken Ham or some of the fine speakers from Answers in Genesis. I agree, Ray and Kirk, nice guys, they understand the law, but theologians, scientists, or philosophers they are not. It'll be interesting to see how ABC edits this debate...
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- Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/08/07 05:44:57 PM | | Age 60, PA | But Ken Ham would just as bad off. He can give good lectures to believers and those uneducated about what evolution actually is but in the real world, he looks just as foolish as Ray and Kirk. But it's not like they are debating someone the caliber of a Dawkins, Sam Harris or Dan Barker. So we shall see. Click here to reply to this post
- I'm afraid you missed the point...
| Posted On: 05/09/07 07:56:34 AM | | Age 44, MS | I'm sorry you were disappointed in Ray's explanations. When God inspired Romans 1 - the part about His invisible qualities being "clearly seen" [Tommy's translation: "painfully obvious"] in creation - He wasn't talking about microbiology or some obscure "scientific" explanation - He was talking about bananas...and oranges, and butterflies, and flowers, and you, etc.
But I'm afraid you missed the entire point of the debate - it was not to "win" the argument at all. It was to get the Gospel out to as many people as possible - and judging by that standard, realizing that the Gospel can potentially be heard by millions - I'd say it was a HUGE success!
"Wise a serpent, but gentle as a dove..." Click here to reply to this post
- Well...actually...
| Posted On: 05/08/07 09:11:24 PM | | Age 19, MN | I've never seen Ken Ham debate, but he is a high school teacher in science. However, there are other, highly qualified, Ph. D's in AiG who probably could debate quite effectively. Query...what do you mean the "real world"??
Thanks and have a great day! Click here to reply to this post
Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/08/07 10:02:22 AM |
Age 41, TX |
I am so excited about this debate, I've already set my DVR to record it! I am trying to let my unsaved co-workers know about it as well. I pray that God uses this to open some minds and hearts to the Truth and Satan cringes when it's over! Thanks to Ray and Kirk for boldly stepping out and using their God given talents to speak to the lost. We should all be so forthcoming in our faith. The facts don't lie, but Athiests obviously have to!
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- Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/08/07 12:06:54 PM | | Age 57, AZ | Don't get to exicited.What we get is the coke can anaolgy.Not exactly Thomas Aquinas and Albertus Magnus.We would be much better off with the Augustinian proofs.These two men might be nice guys,but theologians they are not Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/09/07 09:42:26 PM | | Age 51, AZ | Yes, where ARE your theologians? Where are these brave men and women of God? Why are they not out there evangelizing and standing in the front lines? Remember, do not rely on the proud and supposedly educated as God picks the humble and the weak to do great works that glorify Him! Do not rely on others, each of us have plenty of work to do. The harvest is plenty, but the workers are FEW! Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/09/07 03:01:47 PM | | Age 42, TX | I have viewed the clips on ABC's website, and my conclusions are based upon them. I would agree that Kirk and Ray may not have been the best choices to represent the viewpoint that GOD exists regardless of faith. They are evangelists, and they have to come to the point of faith in their proof. I think they stood firm in the vision they have for their ministry. I thought they had missed opportunities to refute the atheist claims. But, it seems they were not there for that. GOD's word tells us that, "...and GOD has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty," (1 Cor 1 :27). So, I have faith in the hope that God will use this program to set people free regardless of how well Kirk and Ray faired from a debate perspective. I used to involve myself with apologetic debate on the web. I found that it was mostly pointless intellectual posturing that produced little or no fruit. After all, it is not minds that must be changed, but rather, hearts. That only happens when the Spirit of God shows up. The question that begs for an answer is, is the Spirit of GOD upon Kirk and Ray to set the captives free? I believe HE is, and that viewers will see that in their loving and humble attitudes which contrast sharply with the attitudes on the other side of the room. Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 05/10/07 12:35:31 PM | | Age 57, AZ | The problem is that Ray likes to use analogies that are better suited for polytheists than monotheists.I hold up four paintings for Ray,a Botticelli,a Renoir,a Gauguin,and a Pollock.Ray answers, painter,painter,painter,painter.I hold up four buildings for Ray,the pyramids,the Kremlin,the Eiffel Tower,and the Sydney Opera House.Ray answers, builder,builder etc.I then hold up pictures of a comet,a koala bear,a tapeworm,and a redwood tree.Ray answers,creator,creator,creator,creator.For his analogy to work he must argue that the paintigs and buildings were the work of one painter and one builder.If he is not willing to argue this then he has proven polytheism.The only argument around this is if he argues that the same spirit imbues all the painters and builders.Therefore he is left with the same arguement for the creators,that the spirit is imbued throughtout creation.So his fall back position is pantheism.We have wonderful departments of theology and religious studies throughout this country in our universities.Unless his pride is so great that he cannot avail himself of their services. Click here to reply to this post
- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Christian Worldview Network Reporter Attends Big Debate on Existence of God
| Posted On: 06/07/07 12:45:48 PM | | Age 44, NJ | ...spurious argument at best. You seem quite ready to swallow the camel of atheism and yet strain at the gnat of multiple design=multiple designers in the analogy? The point wasn't WHO did the designing, or whether it was more than one designer, but that design shows a designer. Duh, moment?
Come on now. If you are going to argue logic use logic.
Patrick Burwell, President/Founder OnlyJesusSaves.com, Evangelist@OnlyJesusSaves.com Click here to reply to this post
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