“By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles?”1
Better Look Now Because The Rotten Fruit Is Emerging
In a previous article I mentioned that when he was busy warping the minds of the students at Wheaton College last year Tony Jones, a very prominent spokesman for the new cult of liberal theology that is the Emergent Church, defended the absurd position of Christians who think using vulgar speech is perfectly appropriate. During the Question and Answer segment Jones was asked about the EC’s de-emphasis on personal holiness and its toleration of profanity.
And this was his answer: In his best spiritual fourteen-year-old pout Tony Jones said: “People in the Bible swear. And we need to re-think the cultural context of swearing.” So here is a minister who claims to be sent by Christ, whom Zondervan–his publisher–says “is the National Coordinator of Emergent Village...[and] also a doctoral fellow and senior research fellow in practical theology at Princeton Theological Seminary,” presenting an apologetic actually endorsing the use of profanity by the Christian.
Amazing; the reasoning here by Jones is that of a child who has gotten into trouble and then thinks he’ll get out of it simply by saying, “Well, he did it too!” Now I draw your attention toWhy is the Emerging Church drawn to deconstructive theology?where Jones actually manages to drop the “f-bomb” in regard to God’s Word itself! Jones says:
I think the Bible is a f***ing scary book (pardon my French, but that's the only way I know how to convey how strongly I feel about this).2
Really Tony; don’t you think it’s rather pitiful that your vocabulary is so limited that this is how you speak about the Word of God you are supposed to proclaim for your fellow “Christ-followers.” O wait, I almost forgot that this language is quite common among the subversive Emergent “followers of Jesus”. If the reader also finds this kind of talk offensive then please just take my word for it and spare yourself going to the post itself.
Spreading Sick Spiritual Spores
Some also may recall in Dan Kimball and Imago Dei Community3 I provided the link that Kimball has to his friend’s extremely worldly rockabilly band complete with occult symbols, which is itself going on tour with other bands the likes of Nekromantix 4 and Mad Sin 5 Looking around the website that Pastor Dan exposes his flock to we come to this picture link 6 containing things and behavior that no mature Christian should want to be around, let alone to be led there by his own Pastor.
But these kinds of things are rapidly growing today as a fungus within the new evangelicalism. One other case in point is a recent post called Why Christians Suck! 7 by Pastor Timmy Gibson 8 over at Relevant Christian.com. As I write this, RC has now responded with the post No Apology Necessary 9 which is a reaction to my criticism at Christian Research Net. 10 In a bit of a satirical send-up I marveled that in the midst of this emerging generation enjoying their God-given “human sovereignty,” as the Creator struggles to figure out how to win the world to Christ with a horribly old-fashioned message in the cross, it seems the very best of the best John Maxwell clones among the futurists, missiologists and cultural architects in His curious Christ-followers have used their disciplines of spiritual formation to finally come up with the above new world-pleasing slogan.
Yes indeed, what a tremendous debt of gratitude the Body of Christ owes to these ever vigilant and valiant kingdom thinkers. Mighty brave men and women who have sacrificed for the lofty salaries of worldly success and who’ve also been willing to make the strenuous efforts to study from each others books in order that they might move from simply being kingdom thinkers right up into the religious stratosphere of real kingdom players like Timmy Gibsonwho happens to be Pastor of the Olathe Life Fellowship 11 playpen. Yes, here we see that he’s the one who apparently coined this sterling slogan of new evangelical man-love.
And even though I also find that aforementioned post by Tony Jones (as well as the comments section) detestable I presented each of these things in prayerful hope that finally evangelical leaders who have become so enamored with these repugnant Emergent punks will wake up to what these men like Tony Jones and Dan Kimball are actually doing to our young. Men and women, what you must come to understand is that they are being allowed to do it in Name of Jesus Christ, and the Church of our Lord listens to such men at her own peril.
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"repugnant Emergent punks"--really, Ken? You're honestly referring to another human being in such terms, albeit a person you disagree with, rather vehemently obviously? I shudder at the hatred your posts convey.
You criticize Tony Jones for cussing and you turn right around and insult him unashamedly. I wouldn't want my pastor to cuss, but neither would I want my pastor to encourage hateful comments and hateful attitudes.
Perhaps the words of the children's song are appropriate for you, Ken--"Be careful little mouth what you say." Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the
Posted On: 08/18/07 04:42:26 PM
Age 71, FL
This language is so typical of the Emergent Church sect. It's seeker friendly (another name for PC in my view). I guess this approach to the Bible means the "church" should go to the gutter to preach to the new generation. I'm no purist when it comes to language, but it's the Gospel message that saves, not the messenger's morality.
More to the point, however, the Bible is only scary to the unbeliever. And good ole fire and brimstone preaching was scary too.
Hell should be a scary thing, and we don't preach enough of it. Sometimes you have to call a spade a spade, but not an f'n shovel. If the Christian does not respect the holy book, why should the gutter snipes respect it? Gutter language does not put the Bible in the proper context. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the
Posted On: 07/19/07 12:03:18 PM
Age 33, NH
While, technically, there might not be anything Biblically wrong with such language ... what does it say about us? Do we need to be like the world in this way?
Nobody wants his children to speak that way ... but what am I to say if my 8-year-old refers to the Bible the same way my pastor does?
This is clearly an irresponsible use of our freedom. And it does nothing to contribute to spiritual growth. Why create an argument within the community of believers over profanity?
The man needs his mouth washed out with soap. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/19/07 06:47:44 PM
Age 28, MD
It's truly a sad day when we see so many in the church rushing to defend the use of vulgar and profane speech.
"To fear the LORD is to hate evil; I hate pride and arrogance, evil behavior and perverse speech."-Proverbs 8:13 Click here to reply to this post
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/06/07 09:28:27 AM
Age 40, MN
Ken,
I wonder if you realize that 100 years ago or 200 years ago or whenever, that even the most conservative church in America (yes yours) would be considered 'heretical' by the standards of the Christian community of that era. From the way you dress, the things you allow and yes, even on multiple doctrinal issues, that of course we see now as 'non-essential'.
So is it really helpful for you to continue to act as though you are the one guy and church that has it all right, that knows God's mind perfectly? How can you be so confident? God has made Himself known, I agree, but there is mystery, we don't have all the answers, we're human, we CAN'T. I really can't buy your critique here and a lot of what I see on this website. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/05/07 11:17:04 PM
Age 25, CA
Ken Silva needs to be silenced. He is only trying to divide the christian church. Also why is he afraid of criticism, by not letting anyone post comments on his blog? Ken, please stop. You are giving "christian" and "silva" a bad name. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/05/07 10:12:34 PM
Age 17, IN
Paul said in the Bible that "...all things are permissible, but not everything is beneficial." While the Bible does not clearly specify which words are innapropiate, we as Christians must not do the things that are detrimental to our witness.
The author of this article claimed, however, in a rapid fire of attacks on the Emergent church, that it is a common, accepted practice for adherents of this group to use such language as the f-word like the pastor in this story.
May I remind of you of one simple fact, Mr. Author? There are countless people who have come to a saving knowledge of Christ as their savior through what you have named "The Emergent Cult." It seems to me that if you are going to keep other Christians accountable in a Biblical manner, you will do it in a way that does not discourage these young believers. You need to point out the problems you see in the Emergent set of beliefs, but you must do it in Godly love. If you do not, you will show those who are spiritually immature that God's people not only disagree with one another, but that they are unwilling to settle their differences maturely. If you believe that you have something beneficial to say to those attempting to find Yahweh through a group of flawed people (like yourself), then please share with them what God has placed on your heart.
But if the words that you say do nothing to build anyone up, they are just as vulgar as the pastor's word to which you so strongly took offense. Vulgar speech is not limited to specific words not accepted in specific regions. The attacking tone you have taken with this article may be doing more damage than that pastor to whom you have referred.
This is just some food for thought. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/03/07 06:29:07 AM
Age 57, AR
These responses are unreal. The guy wouldn't have used the filthy words if he were IN Christ. When or if you were saved, did you in your quest for the truth in God's word, cuss about it? I didn't! God made me Holy. He wants us to live Holy lives. There appears to be allot of learned people on this page. You may be smart, but not in the knowledge of the Lord, and his ways. The only word I can think to describe what I thought when reading some of these responses, is TOLERANT. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Re: Emergent Church Leader Tony Jones Drops the F-Bomb on the Bible
Posted On: 04/02/07 02:10:54 PM
Age 50, MN
What a shame that anyone who considers himself to own the 'absolute truth' should resort to namecalling and ridicule with an attitude of condescension. More people need to realize that we all are on a spiritual quest. We can love Jesus and still raise questions about what PEOPLE, over time, have done to Him and His message.
MAYBE, just maybe, we (evangelicals) have had it all wrong all this time. Some of us love Jesus SO much that we are endlessly curious about what He REALLY meant with what He said and how He said it.
Maybe we should all learn better how to cooperate and have discussions with dignity, respect, and compassion for one another. Click here to reply to this post