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Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass "living wage" legislation



Posted: 03/26/2007
Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass "living wage" legislation
By Rev. Dr. David M. Berman Th.D


With the new "leadership" in Congress we can expect the old Socialist mind set to crank out the same old stale liberal ideas. The leftists have the people they want in office and are flexing their political muscles within the Democratic Party. They will demand that their ideas be taken seriously. The old guard is now in power so watch out for even more attacks on the Constitution. You will be hearing more and more about the so called "living wage" argument. There will be calls for "living wage" legislation and that spells disaster. One thing we can say for the leftists; they never give up. Those of us who are sane and understand the original purpose of the Constitution must also never give up the fight against tyranny!

According to the web site of the organization known as "Universal Living Wage" the following is their stated desire;

"We must work relentlessly to preserve and promote the "American Dream." We must ensure that every American is working. And we must ensure that every working American is paid a Fair Living Wage."

How do they propose to ensure that every American is paid a "living wage"? You guessed it. Government mandated pay in the private sector. These people believe that laws should be made that force companies to pay what the government decides is a wage you can "live on". This position makes some interesting assumptions.

1) The first assumption is that every job is designed to be a primary source of income for a family.

2) The second assumption is that if wages are taken out of the influence of market forces it will be beneficial to the worker.

3) The third assumption is that the federal government has a Constitutional right to dictate to a private company what they must pay those who work for them.

Let us now deal with the first false assumption, the idea that every job is designed to be a primary income source for a family is a major absurdity. There is a reason why positions are referred to as entry level. Fast food workers for example simply are not working in a career position unless they are planning to move into a management position. Fast food is an entry level job in order to gain training in work ethic. These jobs are vital for young people to gain experience. These are also supplementary income jobs. Perhaps a person may need a second job to supplement their income for their needs or simply because they would like to save money for some desired purchase. The point is that we should not consider flipping burgers as a career we should aspire to in order to raise our families. The small business franchise community depends on entry level workers to survive. It is not possible for a fast food hamburger restaurant to pay the wage that these promoters of Marxist thought desire. The following is the formula that they wish to enforce by law;

This is an example based on cost of living in Austin Texas. This information comes right from the organization known as "Universal Living Wage"

WORK HOURS: 40 hours/week @ 4.33 weeks/month = 173.33 work hours/month, 173.33 work hours X 12 months = 2080 hours/year. Total Gross Monthly Income of $2223.33 X 12 months = $26,680. $26,680 divided by 2080 hours/year. This = $12.83/hour

They want every area in the country to use this formula to artificially mandate every business to pay at this rate as adjusted for the area's economic cost of living. That would mean that the same job in the above example would be mandated to pay $20.77 in Washington D.C. The idea is that this will provide every worker with the ability to live and support their family. This makes total sense to those who do not understand human nature or economic principles. However it makes no sense to anyone who understands how a free economy functions. To those who propose this absurd idea I ask a question. Why not mandate by government law that every worker be paid 30, 50, or even 100 dollars an hour? If all that is needed to increase the standing of an individual's economic position is a government mandated pay raise, why not make everyone rich? According to their logic, that should be the only necessity. If mandating pay would solve the poverty problem why not do it? This is an uninformed position. You can't solve a poverty problem by putting people out of business. It is not possible to solve a poverty problem with artificial government mandated pay. If that were the case, Russia would have not had any poverty during its communist years. Everyone in Russia had a job, and yet there was massive poverty due to the lack of incentive to work hard. Their manipulation of the economy only created more poverty.

Let us now deal with the second false assumption, the second assumption is the idea that if wages are taken out of the influence of market forces it will be beneficial to the worker. Here is the problem with their thinking. Like it or not a worker is a cost of doing business. This is why jobs are referred to as a "job market". It is a simple law that applies to everything in economics. The law is known as "supply and demand". A worker's pay is directly linked to the skill needed as it relates to the market's need of the skill. A person whose skill level is at the level of cleaning rooms is simply not worth the same pay to the job market as (for example) a nuclear engineer. There are less nuclear engineers then room cleaners. When it is hard to find people to fill minimum wage jobs the companies must compete for workers. This leads them to pay more than the minimum wage. They can do this because business is good and they find it beneficial to the company to pay higher wages in that economic situation. When business is slow there may be a surplus of workers and therefore the workers are willing to work for less in order to have a job. If you artificially mandate by law that the worker gets paid a certain "living wage" the result is less hiring of workers, and less businesses to create those entry level jobs.

First of all, if the government as an example mandated $15.00 per hour for a hamburger flipper the business would go out of business. Having said that, let for the sake of discussion assume that everyone would be working if the minimum wage was to be raised to $15.00 per hour. What would that do to the cost of living? If labor costs go up so do the costs to buy the product made or serviced by the worker. The price goes up and therefore so does the cost of living! This defeats the purpose and is counter productive. History teaches us that government manipulation of markets cause problems. This may be news to those who advocate artificial manipulation of labor costs, but people go into business to make money! People invest money to make money! People do not go into business because they are interested in becoming another failed government program. It would not help workers to artificially raise their pay because that would cause a chain reaction throughout the economy that would raise the prices on everyone, including those in the upper income brackets. What this amounts to is simply inflating everything and finding yourself in the same economic position in terms of real inflation adjusted buying power. This causes inflation that then moves interest rates up and thus slows the economy and puts workers further in economic peril. Not only would the cost of a hamburger (and everything else) go up for the upper income person, the lower income person would have to pay more for it to.

This is why the job market is just that, a market. If the government tries to manipulate it there is that old "law of unintended consequences". Economies that are not free do not function to the best interest of workers. That is what history teaches us. This idea is simply warmed over failed socialist nonsense based on false assumptions and ignorance.

Let us now deal with the third false assumption, the third assumption is the idea that the federal government has a Constitutional right to dictate to a private company what they must pay those who work for them. This is a philosophical question. Did our founding fathers desire to have the federal government mandate by law the wages of workers? There is no right given in the Constitution to the federal government to mandate such laws at all. This is another example of the federal government asserting power illegitimately. The idea that the founders would have wanted a central power to decide by mandate of law an agreement of wages for work is not in keeping with their world view. Who is the government to say that an individual does not have the freedom to decide to accept a wage of any amount in order to work? If I want to work for a dollar and hour that is my choice and the government has no constitutional right to disallow me from making a private contract with my employer for a wage amount. This is the problem with those who think they know better in powerful positions. They seek to usurp authority over the individual choice of a citizen in matters that have nothing to do with the jurisdiction of the state. The more regulation there is the more loss of freedom. The more loss of freedom there is the more tyranny rises. What does the Constitution say about the federal government's role in matters related to economics? The following is what the constitution says:

COMMERCE CLAUSE
Article I, Section 8 states that Congress shall have the power "To regulate Commerce with foreign Nations, and among the several States, and with the Indian Tribes"
COINAGE CLAUSES
Article I, Section 8 states that Congress shall have the power "To coin Money, regulate the value thereof" and "To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;..." Article I, Section 10 gives Congress this power exclusively by stating that "No State shall...coin Money"
COPYRIGHT CLAUSES
Article I, Section 8 states that Congress shall have the power "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writing and Discoveries;..."
CONTRACT CLAUSES
Article I, Section 9 states that "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed..." by Congress. Article I, Section 10 states that "No state shall...pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligations of Contracts,..."
EXPORT CLAUSES
Article I, Section 9 states that "No Tax or Duty shall be laid on Articles exported from any State...", and Article I, Section 10 states that "No State shall without the Consent of the Congress, lay any Imposts or Duties on Imports or Exports"
DUE PROCESS
Amendment V states that "No person shall...be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of the law" and Amendment XIV, Section 1 states "nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"

There is no authority given in the Constitution delegated to the federal government to regulate wages. In fact the Constitution specifically denies the federal government the authority to do ANYTHING OUTSIDE WHAT THE CONSTITUTION SPECIFICALLY GIVES IT AUTHORITY OVER! The tenth Amendment states "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people."

It seems that no matter how often we see the failure of socialism and over regulation, there are those who call for more of it. We should not allow envy to drive us to the point of biting the hand that feeds us. Freedom is what makes America what it is. There is no way to even out in some utopian way the wages that all people earn. You hear the advocates of "living wage" legislation point to the amount of money that a C.E.O. makes as if we have a right to tell a private sector company what they can pay their leader. This is absurd Marxist garbage. This is America and it is not only acceptable to work hard and become rich, it is also this desire that has as a side effect jobs for those who may not be as skilled. There is only one thing that drives the people who think that the government should regulate private sector incomes. That one thing is jealousy. It is the fallen way of many to believe that anyone who prospers above them must be wealthy, and if they are wealthy they should be suspect. There is a deception in many that makes them believe they have some right to that which belongs to another. This posture is acrimony, and makes it all the more difficult for the covetous one to attain what he deceived himself to believe is his right without personal sacrifice.

Some will always do better due to many factors including personal drive and investment. If you are reading this and not making a wage you can live on, ask yourself if you are doing what is necessary to improve your marketable skills. Do not expect someone else to be forced to pay you what you are not worth! That is illogical, akin to extortion, and presumptuous.

The real clash here is one of envy and lack of personal responsibility. It is the responsibility of the individual to gain a skill by hard work that is marketable. It is the responsibility of parent to instill in their children the importance of working hard and being educated. If people are irresponsible they should not then expect those who have been responsible to pay them what they have not earned in marketable skills. History teaches that free market principles are the ONLY principles that work in an economy. These principles are also applied to the job market. Instead of working to undermine freedom, the advocates of "living wage" legislation should put their energy into training workers in marketable skills so that they can earn more money with honor (This of course they will not do since they think job training is the function of government programs). When people with socialist thinking are in power this is the kind of foolish thinking that becomes law. Let us hope that America does not become what the left so diligently labors for. If it does, it will be the end of prosperity for all except the elitists. It will be a nation run by tyrannical power hungry despots. The end of Socialism is Communism. Perhaps that is their real true motive?.
Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com

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By Rev. Dr. David M. Berman Th.D.

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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/29/07 07:50:49 AM Age 28, TX
OK, to bring God back into the article and explain why this should be an important issue to the church: The early church pooled their resources so that there were none in need. Everyone was taken care of. The widows were cared for, those whose husbands had abandoned them were supported. You don't see that in the church today. The church I just left is made up mostly of low wage workers, many of them single moms. One of these mothers is paid $10.50 an hour and she was so excited to get that job- said it was twice what she was making! Out of that she pays health insurance and has four children to support, with no child support check because her husband is missing presumed dead. The church should be assisting low income families. But, the church is not doing it's job.
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  1. Re: Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
    Posted On: 03/30/07 11:18:29 PMAge 43, NH
    First please remember that the early church was being persecuted because to be a Christian was illegal. They helped each other and I believe it important to help eachother today in the Church family. That has nothing to do with the goverment forcing a certain wage on private companies. I also wonder with your declaration of the "Church not helping the poor"...I wonder if you give anything to the Church, or the poor yourself? -Dr. Berman
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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/27/07 06:45:45 PM Age 36, IL
As for dim-witted ideas and false assumptions, as many have pointed out (including others here), there's no such thing as a "free" market. All markets have rules. (Otherwise, you wouldn't have a market, you'd have anarchy.) Current rules were designed to protect property, not people. Isn't it more Biblical to protect people, not profits? The current rules work because they debase everyone to simple profit-seekers--holding that to be the highest aspiration anyone should desire. Honoring my father and mother (to take one example), if not in my economic best interest, is not well-served in a "free" market. My parents should have planned ahead to have enough to retire on that they would not burden me in their aged and infirm state. To presume that the only reason people work is to make money is to further play into this ideology and debase people. Using this logic, people would only play a musical instrument, care for the sick, or even attend church if they got paid for it. Because some people do those things for pay doesn't mean that everyone is only interested in doing those things for pay. Once a worker is freed from the fear of not being able to meet his or her basic needs, s/he is free to pursue work that is truly meaningful in life--giving back to others instead of simply greedily gaining as much as possible for him or herself. That is the crux of the "living wage" movement (regardless of any particular piece of legislation). When you say: "If you are reading this and not making a wage you can live on, ask yourself if you are doing what is necessary to improve your marketable skills. Do not expect someone else to be forced to pay you what you are not worth! That is illogical, akin to extortion, and presumptuous," ask yourself the reverse question: "if you are reading this and making more than you need to live on, what makes you think that you are worth more than someone who makes less than you?" This is the corrupt logic of the "free" market that judges people, not by their souls, but by their wallets. I'm anticipating the traditional, "but if we are free to choose the jobs we want, who will do the jobs that no one wants" argument. Who takes out the garbage in your house? Someone that LOVES garbage? Or someone who recognizes that taking out the garbage doesn't define them as a person, but is a duty they have to the community to contribute to the benefit of all. Some homes even rotate the duty so that one person is not stuck with the unpleasant tasks. The only reason an economy can't function thus is the belief that people will only act in their self interest. If you are blessed with an inheritance, is it no illogical, presumptious, and akin to extortion to keep that money rather than going out and getting a job based only on your skills (as if one could give away all of the benefits bestowed by the vagaries of birth)? "Liberals" argue for reforming the system to prevent it from abuse--abuse of the powerless. "Conservatives" see the very system as abusive--abusive to their liberty. Only someone endowed with power already would claim that what the powerless need is more liberty. To claim that you have "the right" to be exploited by agreeing to work for a wage less than you can live on (in most cases because it's the only wage available to you, and half-a-loaf beats starving) ignores the inherent injustice of the abuser having "the right" to exploit you. The "liberty" to starve is no liberty at all. Capitalism is premised on the existence of a "reserve labor force" that is always willing to work for cheaper. An economic system built on exploiting people is not a Biblical worldview. Only a "mixed economy" that recognizes that there are higher values than mammon--and that frees them from insecurity so that they can pursue those higher goals is one that can truly call itself Biblical. If we are to serve the Lord, we must put people before profits.
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  1. Re: Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
    Posted On: 03/28/07 12:26:46 PMAge 43, NH
    You have a right to choose any field that you want including low paying ones, however You do not have the right to choose a job that pays little such as your "musician" example, and then expect the government to dictate to the private sector what you should be paid. That is plain stupip. As far as the biblical mandate goes. I never said that the private sector should not pay well, I simply said that socialism does not work, and never will get the desired high wages. Only personal hard work, and ambition based in biblical morality will bring about the best in society in all areas. Human nature is such that it can't be trusted with total power as the government continues to take. Market forces are the best way to bring about productivity, and good wages. Government mandates chase away investment to other places where investment brings a return. It is simple. You may not like it but that is the way it works. No government will ever be able to establish the utopia that you liberals desire. If you are an able bodied person, get off your back side and improve your self. If you choose not to, do not presume that everyone else owes you a living. Now for those who are down by no fault of their own I believe that private charities are much better. I also think it very important that those who do well be willing to help others by their own choice and thus those who are helped are accountable. Government waste is a joke, and a bad one at that. -Dr. Berman
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    1. Re: Re: Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
      Posted On: 03/30/07 02:42:05 PMAge 40, NJ
      Dr. Berman says, "I simply said that socialism does not work, and never will get the desired high wages"... which is a prudential judgement, not a moral one. Aside from the tacit (and laughable) equation of minimum (living) wage laws with "socialism", the economic consequences (supposedly inflation, job losses, &c.) are easily verified empirically, since there have been minimum wage laws for several generations now. Well, where is the historical data that should be oozing out all over the place, if these slogans were in fact true? The fact is we ought not expect slogans to be true. They are, after all, just slogans.------ Dr. Berman says, "Only personal hard work, and ambition based in biblical morality will bring about the best in society in all areas." No critic on this forum has expressly denied this, but it seems a non sequitur. It does seem that it is quite moral to reward hard work with some minimum wage, say, for example, a denarius.------ Dr. Berman says, "Human nature is such that it can't be trusted with total power as the government continues to take." This is certainly true, and for precisely the same reasons, various businesses cannot be completely trusted to behave justly toward their workers. It is precisely (if not exclusively) the rightful place of governments to foster the common good. It ought not be surprising then that governments must somehow balance the extent of their own powers against the power inherent in large concentrations of wealth (big business). Of course, equating "living wage" laws with government "total power" is a bit of a stretch.------ Dr. Bermany teams with him to Mexico to teach the Bible, work with children, and feed the h says, "Market forces are the best way to bring about productivity, and good wages. Government mandates chase away investment to other places where investment brings a return." Again this is a prudential judgement, not a strictly moral one. It may in fact be right, and I'm inclined to agree wholeheartedly with a smaller government model. But obviously Dr. Berman doesn't advocate complete "market" anarchy. Are minimum health standards a "government mandate"? Contract law? Immigration status of workers? Should the government NOT intervene if a business "just decides" not to pay its workers on Friday? Another "mandate"? Obviously the hand of government must be wielded wisely, but that is not to say not at all.------ Dr. Berman quite tellingly asserts, "No government will ever be able to establish the utopia that you liberals desire." Who are the "you liberals" in that statement I wonder? I asserted below that the supposed sanctity of free markets is one of the very first liberal ideas. This assertion is as yet unanswered. It is the conservative who wishes to protect his own country, his own community, his own job, his wages. The conservative impulse is always toward protectionism. It is the liberal who says to break down all barriers (to trade, between races, between sexes, &c.). It is the liberal who says that pre-rational, instinctive notions of right and wrong (say, e.g., a just wage) have no place in positive law. Utopianism is indeed a quite liberal failing, and indeed must be eschewed. But how is pursing legislation that might bettern enable a father to feed his children utopian. Does someone think $10.50/hr. is like winning the lottery? ------ Dr. Berman, your doctorate (according to the bio) is in Theology, not presumably in economics or political theory. You do your readers no favors by stepping beyond areas of demonstrable expertise. As I said (Age 40, NJ) below, there are several good reasons to oppose THIS PARTICULAR law, some of which you outline. But an a priori rejection of "living wage" legislation because it somehow violates the sanctity of "free markets" is not one of them. I think you would do well to discover the roots of this libertarian way of thinking (Enlightenment rationalism), and see just how antithetical they are to biblical Christianity. Best regards.
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    2. Re: Re: Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
      Posted On: 03/30/07 01:34:34 PMAge 36, IL
      What proof (other than ideology) do you have that socialism "doesn't work", or rather, that it works any less well than capitalism. Workers' real wages have been declining in this country since 1973, while the richest 1% now own more than the lower 80% combined. Is that a system that works? (Rather, the question should be--for whom is that system working?) There will always be those that, as you point out, aren't able bodied; someone has to take care of them. Depending on charity leaves them vulnerable to the goodwill of others, and leaves us dependent on the appropriate administration of the charity-givers. A democratic government gives the people control over those charity-givers (esp. if the charity-giver is the government). Complaints about bureaucratic inefficiency are not critiques of an economic system but of the governmental system that administrates it. (Besides, in a democracy, inefficiencies exist by design--for example, a bicameral legislature and separation of powers--to prevent tyranny.) Market inefficiencies create situtations where people are "free" to fall through the cracks. All systems have weaknesses, to disingenuously ignore capitalism's weaknesses (especially when they're pointed out) smacks of ideology. Especially the refusal to acknowledge that there is no such thing as a "free" market. I didn't advocate socialism (or even liberalism), but a "mixed economy" (as one sees in the US today) that recognizes that an excessive concentration of power--governmental, fiscal, or otherwise--is dangerous to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.
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  2. Re: Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
    Posted On: 03/28/07 08:56:32 AMAge 59, ON
    Thank you; you said exactly what I was feeling (and you expressed it far better than I could have). I sometimes wonder why articles like this appear at this site; I don't see anything Christian about it, and it certainly doesn't seem to pay any attention to Jesus' call to heal the sick, comfort the poor, and love our neighbors.
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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/27/07 12:46:10 PM Age 40, NJ
The sanctity of free markets is, itself, one of the very first liberal ideas... and often a rather dim-witted one at that. It stems from the absurd notion, high ideology really, that all men are created free and equal and may thus relate to one another by means of rational contract. But that is not, nor has it ever been, the way most people relate to one another most of the time. Instead, people relate primarily in families, and then in churches and communities. Only lastly do they relate in purely voluntary organizations. Yet this ideology of governance and (dubious) good order only recognizes the existence of this latter, voluntary, type of relationship. It is the poison tree from which we reap the fruit of the culture of death (contraception, abortion, sodomitic acts, divorce, complete and irrevocable individual autonomy). Good government, i.e., good order, will be predicated upon preserving these "pre-rational", involuntary relations because these transcend individual autonomy and conserve public morals and thus the public good. It is thus quite right and just for a government, working with due prudence, to ensure a minimum wage for certain classes of workers, especially those on whom is the burden of caring for families. Now THIS Federal legislation is no doubt NOT such a law. For one, as pointed out, it fails to discriminate between heads of households (those upon whom families completely depend), and those earning second or third incomes, or teenagers just starting out. Moreover, as pointed out, a federal standard wage is patently absurd, given the huge variances in the cost of living throughout the nation. It would be far more just, and eminently more practical, to pass living wage style laws at the state level. These reasons are alone sufficient to oppose this particular "living wage" legislation. But to oppose it on purely ideological grounds, the supposed sanctity of "free markets" (which can of course never be truly free), in which it is INHERENTLY unjust to apply controls, is to buy, part and parcel, into a very specific ideology: enlightenment liberalism, which has no part in a Christian worldview.
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Nickel and Dimed
Posted On: 03/27/07 11:26:11 AM Age 30, VA
Your conservative economic theories seem valid in principle but not in a real world application. The working poor are finding it harder and harder to get by and the economy is not any better. Imagine that you are earning minimum wage and you can't afford to put down the deposit for an apartment and therefore end up staying in a fleabag hotel. You will pay more in a month on a hotel room than you would have on rent. And you would not have saved up for the deposit because of that extra cost and the fact that you have to eat out everyday because there is no kitchen in your room. It cost you more to be poor. And this cycle would only grow. Imagine if you were to get sick. This kind of thing is happening in almost every facet of honest hard working people. To leap frog to the next step of economic freedom, you at least need a lily pad from which to jump. Yeah, okay, that formula for a universal living wage is coming from a small leftist website, not the Democratic party (who are a far from socialist by the way). ULW says $12.83 an hour in Austin, TX. The current minimum wage there is $5.15. There HAS to be a middle ground. Their basic premise however, is sound: Anyone working 40 hours per week should be able to get housing and get off of the streets. But that's just not happening in America. I challenge you and everyone to read Nickel and Dimed: On (Not) Getting by in America.
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  1. Re: Nickel & Dimed
    Posted On: 03/27/07 09:51:57 PMAge 30, KY
    Dear 30 VA: You are assuming, in practicality, that everyone working a minimum wage job "should be able to get" or "deserves" to meet their basic minimum costs. The vast majority of those working for minimum wage are 16-20 year olds with their mommies and daddies paying for their cars, car insurance, clothing, food, shelter, and schooling. They do not need a "living wage" on the backs of the small business owner trying to make his way in the USA, providing jobs for many in his community. They need a LEARNING wage. The government needs to stay out of it. This is merely another tax on the people who produce things in this country, and these people are taxed enough. Especially when you stop to consider all the small business owner means to our economy. So please... stop. Consider.
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    1. Re: Re: Nickel & Dimed
      Posted On: 03/29/07 07:43:17 AMAge 28, TX
      The whole issue isn't really about the bottom minimum wage, it's about paying low wage workers more so they can afford healthcare and housing. Above minimum wage is still below living wage. One cannot support a family on, say, $7-$9 an hour which is the common wage for an experienced working adult in my area (Houston area.) My parents didn't pay for anything for me, but I was forced to live in their home (which was abusive in my opinion) because I couldn't afford to live anywhere else. Once I paid for my car insurance (no car note, I got a piece of junk begging at a church so I could get to work because there's also no public transportation here)and rent and food and toiletries and medical care (couldn't afford health insurance) I had nearly nothing left, certainly not enough left to save to rent an apt. And I had two years of college and was certified in my field, too! My schedule was somewhere between 6:30 AM and 7:30 PM M-F and no one was willing to hire me just on the weekends. I tried several different kinds of jobs OUTSIDE of my certified field, and was still never able to get ahead, no matter how hard I worked. I used to work a day job with dancers from a strip club and I learned quickly why some of these girls prostitute themselves like that: because they had to support their families and they couldn't find another way to do it. It wasn't so they could live a rich lifestyle or because they enjoyed living immorally. They wanted to feed and clothe their families. So, I'm afraid you are the one without a clue.
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    2. Nickel & Dimed
      Posted On: 03/28/07 06:20:16 PMAge 30, VA
      According to the Economic Policy Institute the type of minimum wage worker that you describe account for only 7% of the total minimum wage work force. About two-thirds of minimum wage workers are over 20 years old; about two-thirds are women and about two-thirds do NOT live with their parents. The report confirms that 40% of them are the sole source of income in their households. This doesnt even account for those who are earning above minimum wage but below what would be a living wage. So please...
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    3. Nickel & Dimed
      Posted On: 03/28/07 10:22:02 AMAge 30, VA
      According to the Economic Policy Institute the type of minimum wage worker that you describe account for only 7% of the total minimum wage work force. About two-thirds of minimum wage workers are over 20 years old; about two-thirds are women and about two-thirds do NOT live with their parents. The report confirms that 40% of them are the sole source of income in their households. This doesnt even account for those who are earning above minimum wage but below what would be a living wage. So please...
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    4. Nickel & Dimed
      Posted On: 03/27/07 11:43:29 PMAge 30, VA
      According to the Economic Policy Institute the type of minimum wage worker that you describe accounts for only 7% of the total minimum wage work force. About two-thirds of minimum wage workers are over 20 years old; about two-thirds are women and about two-thirds do NOT live with their parents. The report confirms that 40% of them are the sole source of income in their households. This doesnt even account for those who are earning above minimum wage but below what would be a living wage. So please...
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      1. Re: Nickel & Dimed
        Posted On: 03/29/07 12:56:37 PMAge 30, KY
        Give me a break, three-time poster! Your bleeding heart economic policies would drive this country into bankruptcy if you were in charge, which, thank God you're not. People must take responsibility for their decisions in life. My husband provided for myself and our daughter, briefly, on $5.50 an hour. When that didn't work, he swung a hammer with carpenters. When the timing was right, he started his own contracting company, and now employs 40 people, all well-paid. Government must keep its hands out of our small business owners' pocketbooks, because our economy depends on these businesses. Artificially overblown minimum wages will only serve to devalue the dollar (thereby negating the usefulness of the minimum wage) and force small business owners to downsize: the minimum wage earner will suddenly be a no-wage earner. Does that sound prudent to you? I can't believe the lack of economic education in this country.
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        1. Nickel & Dimed
          Posted On: 03/29/07 03:16:31 PMAge 30, VA
          Yes your lack of economic education is surprising. Its great that your husband was able to pull himself up from his bootstraps. But you should do some research about the people who cant and try to understand why. Look at whats going on currently. Whats really devaluing the dollar? Look at the real reasons that small business must downsize. If you are intellectually honest, you will see an entirely different picture. Im not suggesting Socialism but what you and Mr. Berman are is suggesting (tax-free laissez-faire capitalism) will only enslave people, destroy our economy and culture and ultimately our country. Just look at whats going on in the U.S. territory of the Northern Mariana Islands (google Marianas Islands, Tom Delay) and you will see what these Christian economic conservatives like Berman are really after. A big price to pay to get what you think is your fare share.
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          1. Re: Nickel & Dimed
            Posted On: 03/29/07 06:40:18 PMAge 30, KY
            Interesting how you never state just WHAT the minimum wage should be. For just what amount exactly should we bleed small business owners (who are many times taking home less than minimum wage themselves)? $7? 9? How about $20? Heck, let's just print more money while we're at it. Socialism is EXACTLY what you're suggesting. I'll wait here while you run back to the union hall for more talking points.
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            1. Nickel & Dimed
              Posted On: 03/30/07 07:32:24 AMAge 30, VA
              No, Ill wait right here while you reread my initial post. But if you cant be bothered. I said there should be some kind of middle ground between what the Universal Living Wage group is suggesting and what the minimum is. The cost of living is different in every city as well as the minimum wage. So you do the math. I also think small businesses should get some kind of tax credit to help counter balance. Along with universal healthcare for all, perhaps workers can get out of the poverty cycle a maybe start small businesses of their own as your husband was able to do.
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              1. Re: Nickel & Dimed
                Posted On: 03/31/07 01:22:14 PMAge 30, KY
                I must admit to not reading at least one of your posts carefully because not once did I suggest "tax-free [French word] capitalism." I am not a free-market anarchist, but I believe in a tax structure that does not dole handouts to the poor (and oftentimes lazy and addicted) on the backs of producers (in other words, minimally progressive or non-progressive; flat tax or national sales tax). I resent the "tax-free" label, and the accusation that that is ever what I suggested when if you will read MY posts you will see I did not. You were saying something about middle ground?
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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/27/07 11:10:54 AM Age 28, TX
I thoroughly agree, mandating higher wages is not going to fix the situation, but only make everything cost more and put more businesses out of business. What I don't agree with " every job is designed to be a primary income source for a family is a major absurdity... (low paid) workers for example simply are not working in a career position unless they are planning to move into a management position... These are also supplementary income jobs. Perhaps a person may need a second job to supplement their income for their needs or simply because they would like to save money for some desired purchase." My husband works with many professionals (not entry level, these are IT PROFESSIONALS) who are not making enough to live on. The fact is, most jobs do not pay what is needed to live on, and most jobs do not allow a schedule such that you can have a second job. Even though I was an experienced, college educated, certified, 20 something working in management, I was still not paid a sufficient wage (no matter where I worked. I have never been paid more then $11 an hour.) This means that the worker will never be self sufficient- will depend on government and family to help or to resort to illegal or unethical activity just to survive. Then what happens when a two income family who is just making it looses one of the incomes due to something like pregnancy? Again, the family is forced to rely on government and extended family. When I had our first child we lived with my inlaws because we couldn't afford to live on my husband's PROFESSIONAL salary. He could not work a second job, and although he looked for other positions he was actually paid pretty well staying where he was at in comparison! Not only is it unscriptural for me to work outside the home now, it is impractical. All my wages would be eaten up by childcare and work costs. A fact of life. So, a lot needs to be done to fix the situation, but raising the wages will only raise the cost of living.
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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/27/07 09:03:08 AM Age 51, TX
This is symptomatic of fallen man's inability to comprehend, much less seek out truth. Sinful people have self interest at heart. So whether it's twisting the Scripture or the Constitution, people do it with abandon in order to gain influence and power. Just as we must strive to be people of the book as Christians, we must strive to be citizens of the charter and hold fast to the Founder's words. We must hold politicians' feet to the fire of truth and never accept pragmatism (it will end poverty) as a reason for supporting legislation. "Is it in agreement with the Constitution?" should be our constant rejoinder as U.S. Citizens; just as we should constantly ask, "Is it in agreement with the Bible?" when we listen to a sermon.
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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/27/07 08:59:37 AM Age 41, MN
This is one the best, well-written articles dealing with the wage laws that I've read. I will try and get a link to it for my friends, so they can come here and read it too. Well done.
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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/27/07 08:37:47 AM Age 60, MO
The federal government has already indirectly manipulated the wages of American workers by their legilation of such treaties as NAFTA. Companies have found it lucrative to position their production facilities off shore and take advantage of lower wages in the world wide job market where competition is fierce. These laws should be rescinded and high tariffs placed on various imports, so as to stimulate production on American soil. The market must dictate the wages, not the government...and the government must not be allowed to manipulate that market...other than in regulation of foreign imports. It is all about a thing called SOVEREIGNTY...something we have lost in America. George Cancilla
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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/27/07 08:17:18 AM Age 37, IN
Not sure what this one has to do with the teachings of Jesus...or was Jesus against the minimum wage too? Maybe that was Amos amd the cows of Bashan?
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Re: Another Dim-Witted Liberal Idea: The government should pass
Posted On: 03/26/07 09:36:42 PM Age 30, KY
Thank you, thank you, for your well-written, insightful analysis. This cannot be said enough. Times like this, I wish I could plagarize so all my liberal friends could see how idiotic their thinking can be. Good work.
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