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| Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time? |
Posted: 03/15/2007
Good News for Women?
Here is a quote from Rebecca Merrill Groothuis who is on the Board of Reference for Christians for Biblical Equality, the evangelical feminist group I discussed last week on the air on Crosstalk with Jill Martin Rische and Ingrid Schlueter. See what I have bolded for emphasis. Rebecca Groothuis, wife of Dr. Douglas Groothuis, writes in her book Good News for Women, page 125 (quoted verbatim):
Some have suggested that before the woman was created Adam was not a specifically male human but was a sexually undifferentiated human. This idea seems to have some plausibility given that the biblical text does not refer to Adam as male until after the woman is taken out of him. In Genesis 1:26-27 and 5:1-2 we are told that God created Adam, that Adam was created in God’s image, and that Adam was created male and female. These summary statements telescope humanity’s two-stage creation so that, whether existing in the form of a single being or as male and female separate beings, humanity is referred to simply as “Adam.” Adam had in himself somehow a capacity for both maleness and femaleness.
———–
On the back of the book, Good News for Women, we read about the supporters of this infestation of androgynous beliefs with names of seminaries supporting the book: Fuller Theological Seminary, Denver Seminary, Gordon-Conwell, Eastern Baptist Seminary, and Carey/Regent College.
Rebecca Groothuis wrote us after the interview stating we had taken her out of context. I have been in prayer about it, because I am more than willing to apologize when I am wrong, but we looked up the source page, and her own words are used against her. We did not quote her out of context at all on the radio program. To listen to the radio program go to Crosstalk Radio, March 8, 2007.
Dwayna Litz
Lighting The Way Worldwide
www.lightingthewayworldwide.org
www.lightingtheway.blogspot.com
P.O. Box 202
New York, NY 10044
Distributed by www.ChristianWorldviewNetwork.com
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/20/07 08:46:44 PM |
Age 30, NY |
Simple Solution:
The Hebrew word for 'Adam' (~da from (0119))
means 'man'
Case Closed.
-The Whyman
WHY?Outreach
www.thewhyman.jesusanswers.com
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- Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/21/07 10:41:48 AM | | Age 53, MD |
since the Hebrew language wasn't invented until much later can we expect they would fully grasp the male/female as 1 complete entity before being split by God? can the early Hebrew world (or our 2007 era for that matter) comprehend what the state of perfection in Eden was REALLY like?---what was so heinous about perfect man rebelling (by eating 1 simple fruit) so as to cause millenia of human misery if we cannot comprehend a perfect oneness with God by a perfect creature who had oneness in gender?
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 04:51:56 PM |
Age 74, PA |
The sixth day creation (all the Races) Gen 1:26-27. Humans had dominion over the Earth.
The eight day creation (Adam is formed) Gen 2:5-8 (Eve is created from Adam's DNA) Gen 2:18-25.
Adam = Man Strong's 121
Man = Strong's 120
Rib = Strong's 6763
Help meet Strong's 5828
Make = Strong's 6213
Formed = Strong's 3335
Using all of the above, I find that Adam was a male and Eve was a female....
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 04:47:28 PM |
Age 61, TX |
This is just another example of what liberal seminaries and some of their extremist professors are doing to spiritual values and organized religion today. The bottom line is that we don't have to be receptive to it. Reject what they put out there and expect us to "tolerate." If someone has been on staff or is a graduate of Fuller, it's a big red flag to me.
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 02:39:59 PM |
Age 53, MD |
so exactly what should we advise intersexed seekers when they open up to us about their life challenge of having some combination of biological OR neurological genetics of both male & female? are you aware that (currently) some 1 in 2000 babies are being born with some variation of this mix?
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- Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/17/07 01:45:56 AM | | Age 52, AK |
Are you suggesting this is Normal? Tell them the same thing we tell others with physical problems ( or mental or spiritual problems). God doesn't love them any less and they need a Saviour just as much!!!!
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- Re: Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/18/07 01:29:16 AM | | Age 53, MD |
my point was that since Adam was 'one' unit, then intersex folks could feel LESS abnormal---i was not commenting ala their salvation vs damned state of being
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 11:30:39 AM |
Age 19, VA |
well its an interesting thought, but I fail t see how this is important. What about this thought is so threatening?
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- Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 02:26:00 PM | | Age 28, TX |
Try this: It's a weird and laughable doctrine that has no basis in reality OR Scripture. People will attempt to use said doctrine to justify UN-Biblical lifestyles and principles. In so doing, they will separate themselves from God's will, and therefore from God Himself.
And bear this in mind: it is impossible to be a Christian without God.
Meanwhile, the "Christianity is unscientific" types will have one more bit of "evidence" to prove that we're all a bunch of nuts. If we don't speak up, they assume we ALL believe it. Bigots are like that.
See now?
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- Re: Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/20/07 04:06:40 PM | | Age 19, VA |
ungodlike lifestyles? does god hate trannies now too? And as for the unscientific argument, the claims of dinosaurs in job, the world appearing in six days in genesis, jericho's walls falling because of loud marching, the virgin birth, all of jesus's miricles, and jesus and lazarus rising from the dead would seem to already be enough. Might as well say its possible that adam was genderless.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/20/07 09:49:00 PM | | Age 68, FL |
If Adam was genderless, how did he father
Cain and Abel?
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/21/07 10:32:10 AM | | Age 53, MD |
1) Adam is "split" into 2 separate beings -before the Fall
2) Adam "chooses" relationship with Eve over God ---thus sin is born into perfect creation, being commited by perfect man
3) Adam/Eve then have 2 offspring (born in sin...) who then commit first murder
----or am i missing any chronology?
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- Good news for women? Adam was really a woman at one time?
| Posted On: 07/23/08 09:03:46 PM | | Age 51, MS |
Actually Adam chose to disobey God and he sinned, thus sin entered the world. Disobedience to God is sin. I have studied nothing to suggest that Adam was 2 separate beings???
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 11:22:12 AM |
Age 54, WA |
One gets the impression that Christians do not like women. They think that women need to be hobbled, corseted, in their minds and spirits. They think that any man who may have female qualities is evil.
Usually, when someone hates women, it's because he or she has been abused as a child, and does not feel his or her mother protected him enough, from an abusive male in the family.
Christians support the idea that gay people are evil, too. This is a sublimation of internal-family heterosexual child abuse. Raped by relatives, the child grows up to hate and fear gays and to scapegoat them for the abuse.
What's going on in Christian families/
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- Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/18/07 02:14:14 PM | | Age 19, MN |
Christians don't like women? Ha, that's actually kinda funny since Dwanya Litz is a woman. If Christians didn't like women, she probably wouldn't be allowed to even post ANYTHING on CWN. Anyway, have a great day and God Bless! Oh, and one more thing: there are (as TX 28 states) male and female qualities. BUT, there are also qualities that, regardless of gender, that Christians should have. Can guys be tender hearted? Yep. Can woman protect other people in times of danger? Sure. Are these gender qualities or CHRISTIAN qualities or both or what?? How anyone answers that question will determine alot of how they respond to this article. Again I say, God Bless and have a great March 18th!!
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- Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 02:22:03 PM | | Age 28, TX |
Let me answer you.
"One gets the impression that Christians do not like women."
One gets the impression that you do not like Christians.
"They think that women need to be hobbled, corseted, in their minds and spirits."
All of us? Every last one? Wow, you're good if you can reach into the head of EVERY Christian on Earth and know exactly what we think and feel. Incidentally, you WERE aware that Dwayna Litz and Ingrid Schlueter are WOMEN, right? Right?
"They think that any man who may have female qualities is evil."
"Evil" aside, let's apply a little plain logic: Men display male qualities, women display female qualities. This is because men are male and women are female. It's not so hard when you actually set aside your Gender Studies propaganda and look at real live human beings instead of the hypothetical constructs.
"Usually, when someone hates women, it's because he or she has been abused as a child, and does not feel his or her mother protected him enough, from an abusive male in the family."
That's an interesting inversion on the true roots of the major feminists' attitudes. To be honest, though, I spent a lot of time hating women--including myself--because I thought we were either total morons or shrill harpies. You're not helping me there.
"Christians support the idea that gay people are evil, too."
Um, again, ALL of us? Everywhere? Every one? And what's with this "evil" thing you have? There's a wide difference between "sinner" and "evil."
"This is a sublimation of internal-family heterosexual child abuse."
Oh, now we get to the root of your issues. You think we were ALL raped by our fathers. Okay. Gotcha.
"Raped by relatives, the child grows up to hate and fear gays and to scapegoat them for the abuse."
Yup, that's right; I hate gays. We all hate gays, and that's why we want them to go to Heaven. Caring about someone is the first indication of hatred--whereas your vitriol is the first indicator that you are a good, charitable soul who NEVER prejudges anyone. And sure, right, a girl who is raped by a MALE relative will grow up to fear GAY men because they AREN'T interested in her...makes sense--if you don't know any human beings.
"What's going on in Christian families/[sic]"
If you knew even ONE Christian family, you'd find out that your entire comment was completely insane--but it's highly unlikely that a base pervert and bigot like you would be allowed near any good Christian's children. We want to PROTECT our kids from strange and scary people who only live to hate.
Have a pleasant day, Rosie.
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- Well said Rosie!!
| Posted On: 03/23/07 05:56:11 PM | | Age 56, OR |
Well said! We all have a long way to go in getting our heads truly together. Your comments are welcome, since there are SOME things men just cannot say to potentially closed ears -- especially of the female-prickly-pear variety.
Thanks. PGW
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- Re: Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/20/07 02:08:30 PM | | Age 38, NJ |
"To be honest, though, I spent a lot of time hating women--including myself--because I thought we were either total morons or shrill harpies. You're not helping me there."
Rosie--that statement isn't helping anyone, including yourself.
I will pray for YOUR hatefulness.
John 17--Christ prayed for unity for all believers---doesn't sound like that has room for hate or belittling.
Let each of us esteem others higher than ourselves.
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- Re: Re: Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 04/07/07 06:54:33 PM | | Age 31, NJ |
I am not a Christian, but you sound like the only one that is. These women, especially Rosie, are hateful.
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 09:56:35 AM |
Age 46, PA |
I believe that this is another instance where we have the proclivity to read our own agendas back into the Scriptures and forget the purpose to which God was originally speaking.
Remember that in the first chapter of Genesis, after God created the race Adam, male and female, He blesses them both. In the Second chapter, when the narrative zeros in on the first man before the woman was on the scene, God pronounces his first malediction over His creation saying, it is not good that the man should be alone.
Something was missing in the man that God wanted the man to notice. It was never intended that the man should have everything in him to exist androgynously. Therefore, it does not follow that the equality issues that women are fighting for today should be found in trying to prove that men and women might have been biologically one.
Instead, we should rejoice that God planned man to be first and foremost dependant on the Lord and also to rely on Gods special provision to complete the man where he is lacking.
The woman was created for an extremely honorable role in humanity and we denigrate it when ever we take a non-Biblical agenda and force it back on Gods Word.
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- Good news for women? Adam was really a woman at one time?
| Posted On: 07/23/08 09:13:54 PM | | Age 51, MS |
Actually Adam chose to disobey God and he sinned, thus sin entered the world. Disobedience to God is sin. I have studied nothing to suggest that Adam was 2 separate beings???
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- Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 02:57:29 PM | | Age 53, MD |
---so you're saying that God "discovered" a missing 'link' or piece in God's PERFECT creation (Adam) before the Fall?? ---so God created imperfection?
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- Re: Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/17/07 10:37:00 AM | | Age 28, TX |
Did you even think about your comment before you wrote it? In terms of humans, who is perfect? The creation of Adam was "good", but the human race was not complete. After all, how would life have continue if Eve was not created?
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- Re: Re: Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/17/07 07:30:35 AM | | Age 46, PA |
God does not have to discover anything. It is man who has to discover that he is not complete in himself. He has to depend on God for life and quality of life, in all spheres of man's existance. This includes knowledge that "it is not good that man should be alone." This is God's own pronouncement over the man before He created the woman.
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 08:53:55 AM |
Age 43, LA |
This concept is not new... it bears a very close resemblence to "Adam Kadmon" from the Kabbalah, specifically the version as taught and promoted by Jacob Luria (otherwise known as the Lurianic Kabbalah) during the 16th century. This concept was soon adopted by some "Christians" in the Renaissance and Restoration periods including by mystics such as Jacob Boehme and Jane Leade; also mystical Pietist movements such as the Ephrata Cloister/Colony in colonial Pennsylvania also believed in this concept, which became known as the "Christian" Kabbalah but is obviously NOT orthodox Christianity.
According to "Christian" Kabbalistic worldview, Jesus Christ is not just the second Adam but the second Adam Kadmon who would restore all creation back to its original order - Adam Kadmon was originally androgynous and in some Kabbalistic worldviews this concept goes so far as to espouse that Lucifer is Christ's brother and that even he would be restored to creation (Jane Leade/Philadelphian Society and Kepler both wrote on this). As one can see universal restorationism/salvation is closely affiliated with this worldview as it denies a literal hell.
Jewish scholar Gershon Scholem researched and wrote on this history (both as it pertains to Jewish and Christian Western thought) fairly extensively.
So anything coming close to viewing Adam as androgynous must be viewed critically because it is a theologically slippery slope that western Christianity has unfortunately been down before.
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 08:49:50 AM |
Age 46, PA |
I believe that this is another instance where we have the proclivity to read our own agendas back into the Scriptures and forget the purpose to which God was originally speaking to.
Remember that in the first chapter of Genesis, after God created the race Adam, male and female, He blesses them both. In the Second chapter, when the narrative zeros in on the first man before the woman was on the scene, God pronounces his first malediction over His creation saying, it is not good that the man should be alone.
Something was missing in the man that God wanted the man to notice. It was never intended that the man should have everything in him to exist androgynously. Therefore, it does not follow that the equality issues that women are fighting for today should be found in trying to prove that men and women might have been biologically one.
Instead, we should rejoice that God planned man to be first and foremost dependant on the Lord, then also to rely on Gods special provision to complete the man where he is lacking.
The woman was created for an extremely honorable role in humanity and we denigrate it when ever we take a non-Biblical agenda and force it back on Gods Word.
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Re: Good News for Women? Adam was Really A Women at One Time?
| Posted On: 03/16/07 07:00:31 AM |
Age 54, IN |
The attack on the local NT church continues. Satan hates the church--always has and always will.The church is nothing more than a compilation of families. Dads, moms and children. The head of that entity is Christ. Then comes dad, then mom and then the kids.
The struggle the feminists have has nothing to do with them wanting EQUALITY. It has everything to do with them wanting PREEMMINANCE. Because of the fall, God cursed the man and the woman and to the woman He said, "Your desire will be to the man." She wanted control over him and still does.
If Satan can destroy the family unit, as God has ordained it, then he has masterfully weakened the church. And as the church goes, so goes the world!
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- Nail hit on head. Good Job.
| Posted On: 03/23/07 06:08:09 PM | | Age 56, OR |
Yep. You got it. You are sooOOO-OO un-PC.
You won't hear this from any pulpits I know of. -Pity...
..And 43 (LA) gave some great Kabala history too. If we do NOT read our Bibles AND study history... we will be bitten by that serpent time and time again. "My people perish for lack of knowledge". PGW
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