The President of the Southern Baptist Convention Dr. Frank Page has responded to a letter which I wrote to him concerning two time former president of the SBC Dr. Ed Young sharing a platform in February of 2007 with Oneness Pentecostal “Bishop” T.D. Jakes who denies the cardinal doctrine of the Holy Trinity–the actual nature of God.
Dear Dr. Page,
Please know that I wouldn’t attempt to contact you if I didn’t think we have a very serious problem here as I point out in this post at Slice “Get Ready - Creative Church Conference 2007 is A-Coming”: http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/archives/2006/12/get_ready_creat.php
When Dr. Young yokes himself with Word Faith Oneness Pentecostal T.D. Jakes this should be of the utmost concern. For a former two time president of our convention to publicly endorse T.D. Jakes as a legitimate Christian brother is simply inexcusable.
As someone I respect I would very much appreciate hearing back from you concerning what you have to say about this.
Dr. Page, I thank you for you time and may the Lord have mercy on us.
In Christ,
Pastor Ken Silva
The Background For This Theological Discussion
Sadly this entire issue of Jakes’ denial of the Holy Trinity is being met by the Body of Christ with a collective yawn. However, my background is in apologetics, counter-cult evangelism and Comparative Religion which has required that I have done much extensive research into the origin of the Bible itself, of Biblical manuscripts, detailed study of Church history, systematic theology, various World Religions and of course non-Christian cults for the better part of nineteen years.
This is necessary background information for you to have in order to understand why Dr. Frank Page and I would then be able to have a rather intense theological discussion regarding the nature of God. Well, surely I thought Dr. Frank Page would be concerned about this issue and want to know the stone cold undeniable facts concerning two very high profile representatives of the SBC who have violated 2 Corinthians 6:14 by publicly yoking themselves with T.D. Jakes who does not believe in God.
Cutting Through All The Technical Jargon
Again I apologize beforehand for the possibly difficult language and wherever I can I will attempt to simplify any of Dr. Page’s hermeneutical exegesis regarding relevant passages that deal with the pneumatology necessary for this important area of theology. Before I begin to carefully break down Dr. Page’s cogent and highly insightful comment for you it will prove helpful to the reader that I quote it in its entirety.
The president of the entire Southern Baptist Convention, who I readily admit has far more formal training than I, says in response to my letter of concern:
Pastor Silva, Thanks for your sharing of concerns with me. I pray for God’s discernment for my life as well as for others too. May we all be able to speak the truth in love.
In Christ,
Frank Page
O I know, you’re probably thinking right now: “Whew, where in the world does one possibly begin to deconstruct a letter of this profundity?” And yet, I will attempt to give it my best. Dr. Page begins with, “Thanks for sharing your concerns with me.” Well, with my own years of study–taking into account I am but self-taught–my best guess here as to making this accessible to the reader would be that Dr. Page has just said: “I have a fly in my office and I really want it to go away. It’s really annoying me as it buzzes around in here.” Again, I make no claim to be a theologian but this is what I am seeing before me.
Next we come to the central issue Dr. Page brings up in this most judicious reply. He says, “I pray for God’s discernment for my life as well as for others too.” Now, to the best of my ability here I sense what Dr. Page is attempting to teach me is: “I have a piece of chewing gum stuck to the bottom of my shoe which irritates me as I walk, and so I pray it will somehow just get scraped off.” And finally this brings us to the climatic point concerning our theological discussion about the nature of the God we both are serving together in the Southern Baptist Convention, the largest allegedly “Protestant” Denomination in the entire country.
Dr. Page then presses his argument home with: “May we all be able to speak the truth in love.” I must admit, this did take me a little off guard in our odium theologicum. But after much soul-searching and prayer I do believe the Lord has helped me to see that Dr. Page has essentially patted me on my proverbial head and said: “Thanks for writing me little boy, now you just run along and play. I really can’t be bothered with all of this nonsense about Who God is. I have very important work to do developing Christ followers for His Kingdom.” But no Dr. Page wouldn’t simply try and patronize me like that; would he?
O well, I guess that’s for another day but for now I might put the following before the reader: Do we seriously think that Christ Jesus will simply stand idly by while His Church won’t even defend the nature of Who He is? If you happen to believe that I can tell you this: You had best invest in some spiritual underwear made of the heaviest asbestos because it is going to get mighty hot within the Southern Baptist Convention. And Dr. Page, you need to know this. That letter I sent to you was only God’s battering ram with which to open up this issue and voices much louder than mine are soon to speak the Truth in love to you.
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SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 07/04/08 09:30:55 PM
Age 55, MS
I ran across this web page while looking for something else. Since my $ 10,000.00 Reward web page was invoked (above), I would like to respond with links to a few of my other web pages.
The #1 ranked "non-denominational Bible study" on Google, Yahoo and MSN
www.impact-ministry.com
50 Reasons Why The Bible Doesn't Mention A Trinity, Or Refer To God As "Persons".
http://www.impact-ministry.com/acts2/trinity.html
Is The Holy Trinity sound doctrine or flawed man-made theory?
http://hometown.aol.com/firstacofbc/myhomepage/newsletter.html
Grammatical explanation of Matthew 28:19 regarding the name alluded to.
http://hometown.aol.com/actschap2bgr/myhomepage/business.html
Salvation .... The Roman Road?? Or, the Jerusalem Road??
Listen on line, view printable version or download for FREE.
http://www.impact-ministry.com/audiostudies/
Wishing you God's very best!
Bobby G. Richardson
Non-Denominational Layman Click here to reply to this post
Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/15/07 09:37:59 AM
Age 30, TN
Mr. Silva has presented us in this article with his analysis of Dr. Page's response to his letter. Perhaps we should also analyze Mr. Silva's letter to Dr. Page (also quoted in its entirety in this article). Mr. Silva begins: "Dear Dr. Page, Please know that I wouldnt attempt to contact you if I didnt think we have a very serious problem here." Now it should be understood that where Mr. Silva says "we" he means "you, Dr. Page," as in, "I have a problem, and I want you to deal with it for me so I don't have to do anything myself." Mr. Silva continues: "as I point out in this post at Slice Get Ready - Creative Church Conference 2007 is A-Coming: http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/archives/2006/12/get_ready_creat.php," where we should understand him to mean "here is a shameless plug advertising my own interests, and a not very subtle attempt to assert my own importance and authority." Mr. Silva's next paragraph reads "When Dr. Young yokes himself with Word Faith Oneness Pentecostal T.D. Jakes this should be of the utmost concern. For a former two time president of our convention to publicly endorse T.D. Jakes as a legitimate Christian brother is simply inexcusable." Here we should understand him to mean something like "This is an example of what I do with my 'Ministry of Discernment,' which might easily be confused with being a professional tattle-tale." And again, "this should be of the utmost concern" could also read "here is a hot potato I that I am concerned about, and I want to hand it over to you to deal with for me." Mr. Silva's concluding remarks are as follows: "As someone I respect I would very much appreciate hearing back from you concerning what you have to say about this. Dr. Page, I thank you for you time and may the Lord have mercy on us." This latter portion of Mr. Silva's letter is best illuminated by his sarcastic analysis of Dr. Page's response, i.e., Mr. Silva was not being at all sincere when he penned these words. It is obvious that Mr. Silva does not respect Dr. Page, nor does he value or appreciate his time as he claims to do, else he would not attempt to publicly besmirch Dr. Page and drag his name through the mud simply because Dr. Page handed Mr. Silva's hot potato back to him and did not publicly reprimand the men Silva is tattling on. And that is how, as another responder put it, a learned man like Mr. Silva can come across like a screaming brat. --Brian Click here to reply to this post
Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/12/07 04:18:15 PM
Age 47, AL
To take an image from Nehemiah, Mr. Page is busy "building the wall" (building God's Kingdom). His response could have been as Nehemiah to his "pesky" detractors: "I am carrying on a great project and cannot go down. Why should the work stop while I leave it and go down to you." (6:3). My prayer is that some day you, Mr. Silva, will take your great intellect and learning up on the "wall" and work alongside of "Nehemiah's" like Mr. Page, so that the work will get done before the LOrd returns. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/13/07 10:33:27 PM
Age 47, MO
Sometimes a misguided statement needs a snappy comeback, and this was a good one. T.D. Jakes and his fellow Oneness heretics and Word/Faith hucksters are more like Sanballet, Tobiah, and Gesham (Nehemiah 4:1-8, 6:1-7), and Ken Silva is more like Ezra and Nehemiah. Click here to reply to this post
T.D. Jakes is a greedmonger and a false teacher
Posted On: 01/11/07 10:15:46 PM
Age 47, MO
The responders who defend T.D. Jakes need to realize that the time for personally confronting him has passed long ago. Jakes never repented of his Oneness heresies, so we must treat him like a Roman Tax Collector! Jakes and his defenders deserve every bit of sarcasm directed at them; just as Ahab, Jezebel, and the priests of Baal deserved Elijah's sarcasm; the Pharisees deserved Jesus' sarcasm; and the Corinthians who bragged about their sins deserved Paul's sarcasm. Those who defend Jakes' false doctrine don't seem to know the difference between a "person" and a "manifestation." They also don't know how Oneness Pentecostals strain at gnats (they say every Christian has to speak in tongues), but they swallow some very large camels by denying the Trinity. Even if T.D. Jakes speaks any truth, that truth can be acquired from literally thousands of real Christian leaders WITHOUT the Oneness false doctrine nor the health-and-wealth greedmongering. I thank Ken Silva for speaking the truth. Click here to reply to this post
Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 04:41:07 PM
Age 62, LA
Well, I believe I have found a kindred spirit. I thought I was alone fighting all this nonsense in the SBC. Keep fighting the good fight of faith Ken Sliva. When you commit to contending for the faith, the creeps that crept in unawares will tend to get upset. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/11/07 11:36:31 AM
Age 51, NH
Thank you very much for your kind words in the Lord. They mean much to this very weary soldier. You are quite right that the guns of the enemy will fire upon us, and I am not a machine. Sadly in this issue the leaders within the evangelical community have showed by their ignoring this critical issue that they are not going to defend the Trinity and my financial support has also been hit hard. Regardless I am constrained to fight on to the end..."though none go with me, still I will follow." Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/13/07 01:58:44 AM
Age 61, TX
You are not alone. Thanks to you, John MacArthur and other Godly courageous men, and discernment, many realize the truth. We've researched the teachings and quotes of T.D.Jakes, and it reminds me of when OT Scripture was quoted to Jesus in the wilderness...so close to sounding right to the ear, but still wrong! God bless you! Persevere! Click here to reply to this post
Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 03:41:43 PM
Age 53, WI
Reading this series of articles brings up questions of authority. When those who claim to speak for God are at odds, who do you trust? Who does speak for God?
When articles like this are read one must make decisions regarding the nature of the authorities who speak. Because the Evangelical World offers few clear lines of authority (in part because of the breadth of its influence) one must consider 1.)the nature of the group for whom they speak 2.) the nature of the institutions through whom they were trained 3.) the nature of the message they bring...is it Biblically sound, historically sound and is it brought in manner that is consistent with the heart, mind and sensibilities of Christ.
Problems related to spiritual authority have alway been difficult in the Christian world - the evangelicals have struggled with authority being assigned based on the perception of God's blessings on the messengers. These perceptions are influenced by the size of one's congregation (or listening auduience), the amount of wealth a ministry is able to generate, the amount of books a person can write, publish and sell and even the physical attractiveness of the messenger and their spouse. The media and the internet has also given a voice to many who never would have been heard a generation ago. The Evil One has had far too much success in influencing the success of many whose "ministries" have done far more damage to the Bride of Christ that to the Gates of Hell.
So who speaks for God? Ken Silva? T.D. Jakes? Dr. Page?
My grandfather, Dr. Lee A. Clinton...an old GARBC minister used to say that when a preacher gets loud it often means his point is getting weak. It seems to me that when a man must resort to sarcasm and self-promotion, that too is an indication of weakness.
I am very curious to know how the Christian Worldview organization and the various spokesmen for Worldview weighs in on Pastor Silva's opinions in regards to T.D. Jakes and the leadership of the Southern Baptist Convention. Pastor Silva is a prolific writer and his opinions reflect heavily upon Christian Worldview Network. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/11/07 11:31:15 AM
Age 51, NH
I might offer a second opinion where you say: "an old GARBC minister used to say that when a preacher gets loud it often means his point is getting weak." Or it just might be as in Matthew 23 and Luke 3:7-9 where the Message "gets loud" due to the Lord's growing anger at not having His ministers listened to. Perhaps you might pray about that. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/18/07 12:42:38 PM
Age 53, WI
If your premise that anger is an appropriate response to evil - to that I am in whole-hearted agreement. I don't even have to pray about that. However, what I am prayerfully considering is the comparison of the manifestation of our Lord's righteous anger, as He cleared the temple, to the anger generated when a Christian's decision (for some reason) to offer a gracious (but admittedly unsatisfying) response to a valid question results in anger. I can understand Pastor Silva's frustration but have a hard time aligning sarcasm, self-promotion and anger with biblical admonitions that govern Christian relationships and present evidence of our salvation: gentleness, kindness, self-control, patience...and where is the love? Regardless of Pastor Silva's feelings, just how great was Dr. Page's offense? Thus far, my prayers still leave me saddened by Pastor Silva's response. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 04:58:48 PM
Age 52, OK
The question of authority, of course. is the Scripture alone. If a man disagrees with the scripture, he has undermined all authority. No matter how much "blessing" seems to be present in way of a large audience or publishing, he simply has nothing to say to the body of Christ. I would not call Silva's evalution of Page's response "sarcasm" but a touch of humor. The point was, of course, that Page had simply nothing to say when he should have responded to a blatant mixture of those who stand for the entire Word of God as opposed to those who do not. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/15/07 10:27:44 AM
Age 30, TN
You would not call Silva's evalution of Page's response "sarcasm"?! What in the world would you call sarcasm then? How much of a smart-alec must someone sound like before you would say "That person is being sarcastic"? It sounds to me as though you are being politically correct in an attempt to defend someone you happen to like, as in, "He's not rude or impolite; he's just manners-challenged." I say if it quacks like a duck, call it what it is.
--Brian Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 11:40:27 PM
Age 61, TX
When I read Page's reply, I thought it was "lukewarm." Indifference is a horrible thing in religion. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/18/07 12:11:29 PM
Age 53, WI
Perhaps. However, just because a fish doesn't take the bait that doesn't not mean it's not hungry...just wary. I suspect Dr. Page either sensed the sharpened hook of suspicious intent or Pastor Silva was correct in his suspicions that Dr. Page does not hold him in high enough academic regard to answer him. The world is full of self-taught, self-proclaimed experts. The world is not full of men who have been through the fires of the academic rigors demanded when one must submit to the authority of other trained academics (Godly or Ungodly) and have come through it all, by God's grace, with a stronger faith in God, a greater love for God, a greater love for neighbor, and an unyielding conviction that the Bible is wholly authoritative. Taken at face value, Dr. Pages reply was powerful, gracious and true...but perhaps not satisfying. Sometimes a man's intent is obvious. The fact that Dr. Page's was not doesn't seem to justify the belittling he received. Sometimes a man's intent does not need to be stated because his reputation speaks for itself and, unless Pastor Silva's letter to Dr. Page contained undue flattery, he perceived Dr. Page as a man of good reputation. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/24/07 07:34:16 PM
Age 61, TX
If you go back and read Silva's letter to Page, you'll see it was done in the spirit of deep concern, he expressed his respect for Page, and a desire for a response. He thanked Page for his time. However, if you read Page's reply, it was not a response to anything Silva addressed. Page's entire 3 sentence statement was a cop-out. It was so generic, he could have a drawer full of identical little notes, and have all kinds of situations for which he might feel they would suffice. He did what so many others are doing today, namely, using the diplomatic, politically correct, TOLERANT way out. The first thing that comes to my mind is always that they must have something personally on the line. I do wonder what it is for Page. You mentioned "an unyielding conviction that the Bible is wholly authoritative." One that, we agree. Wasn't that the basis of why Silva wrote to Page? If so, how could anyone see Page's non-response as "powerful, gracious and true..." when he dodged the Biblical issue being addressed? Click here to reply to this post
Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 10:37:48 AM
Age 22, FL
Pastor Silva,
Only the L-rd our G-d can bring conviction. Your articles and letters concerning T.D. Jakes and Pastors Young are so critical that all the love has seeped from it. "There is no condemnation for those who are in Christ..." and your consistent attack against T.D. Jakes theology shows that you are out to fight against him rather than against a specific theological system. If you were truly concerned, you would have sent a similar letter to Pastor Jakes, and quite frankly, would have done all of this quietly in private, than to invite many other readers into your spectacle. It hurts me to see you so openly judge men who have given up much of their lives to bring the gospel to many people. Just because you've studied much, doesn't mean you know everything and therefore understand the importance of why you need the Holy Spirit to help teach you and build you up in all areas of your spiritual walk. Likewise, I'd suggest you ask the Holy Spirit to guide you in how you treat your brethren. Believe it or not, T.D. Jakes and Pastors Young are in this same race as you: they want to see souls come to Messiah, want the church to feel equipped and empowered, crave that G-d may manifest Himself in all believers lives. How would Jesus conduct business? Certainly, He would do it in love. Towards the end of your article, you become as presumptuous as to interpret Pastor Young's letter to your audience. Please, Pastor Silva, don't let semantics and theology be what burns your bridges... you never know when you'll need Pastors Jakes, or Young. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/22/07 08:18:33 PM
Age 61, TX
I don't think they're in the same race at all with Pastor Silva, who wants to be sure people are led to the GENUINE Messiah. How will they know unless they are told? Would you consider that the Holy Spirit might have had a part in what inspired Pastor Silva, who is trying to tell them what's happening! As to how Jesus would conduct business--He would probably do the same thing today that He did when He drove the sellers and money changers out of the temple, or when he gave the Pharisees all the woes---and called them a brood of vipers. Jesus never misidentified the fake for the authentic, and He boldly demonstrated that. Interestingly, the ones who come to mind were all supposed to be the "religious" leaders of the day! Why do you feel Jakes or Young would ever be "needed," if they preach or remain silent and tolerate a different gospel? For what? To you and all the tenacious people who are so critical of Pastor Silva, I'd like to say that he's in good company; people were also very critical of Jesus, the apostles, and the early church fathers. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 01:13:51 PM
Age 58, BC
To the 22 year old from fl. Please read 2cor 7:1-10, 1cor 1:10, gal 1:6-12 and see if you still feel the same way about your response. It is the word that convicts. If you have not read the new testament in order,I would plead that you stay home from church till you have. You will learn far more from the bible than todays sermons. With deepest love al Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 11:30:45 PM
Age 63, OH
You are certainly correct when you say it is the Word that convicts. But Consider this John 1:1 " In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The scriptures are part of the creation and can not act at all. But the Creator is a person and the Creator of everything that there is including the scriptures. He is the only one that can call us, convict us, and guide us into all Truth isn't He. --- Lou Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/14/07 03:25:03 PM
Age 55, AZ
That's what the Floridian was stating, that God convicts rather than man. Silva cannot convict any one person or people groups... that's for the Lord to do. Silva believes that by writing articles, we'll feel conviction. Rather, it is God's holy word, the Bible, that leads us to repentance and conviction. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 12:31:44 PM
Age 51, NH
As politely as I can say it, you would probably be best served not to read things I write. This way you won't get upset over things that, as gently as I can say it, you simply do not understand. Please consider taking my pastoral advice here to heart. Click here to reply to this post
Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 09:51:54 AM
Age 48, ND
Mr. Silva,
I have looked at the doctrinal statement on Pastor T.D. Jakes website and while I am not a charismatic and not part of the apostolic movement, I don't see where he is heretical in his belief on the trinity. Do you have some other source that I need look at? Is there some other place that he has stated something differently?
As for your being so upset about how Dr. Page responded, I find it sometimes difficult to be a servant when someone treats me as one, but isn't this the true test to see if I really am one? I'm sorry your ego is so bruised.
Sometimes I feel as if some of the group at Worldview Weekend is a bunch of shock-jocks just looking for an issue to start a debate. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/11/07 12:22:53 AM
Age 61, TX
Can anyone tell me how Jakes would explain the scriptural scene at the baptism of Jesus? The Holy Spirit appeared, and the Father spoke of His son, Jesus was present...sounds like the TRINITY to me! If you want a lot more info on what Jakes believes about God, the Bible, etc., go to http://www.forgottenword.org/jakes.html It is not only my opinion, but the opinions of others that I respect that in many areas, he is absolutely erroneous. He calls himself a prophet. I remember what the Bible says about false prophets. And just WHERE did he go to seminary??? Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 12:36:19 PM
Age 51, NH
Please know there's no offense taken and you are more than welcome to feel about CWN or myself any way you wish to. My "ego" was not affected in the least by anything you have said or any of the scenarios you dreamed about in your comment. Perhaps you don't understand modalism aka "sabellianism." But I have written on Jakes' denial of the Trinity - and hense God Himself - here: http://www.apprising.org/archives/2007/01/keeping_you_app_8.html Click here to reply to this post
Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 09:44:21 AM
Age 46, MN
Wow! You caught me hook line and sinker on that one. I was expecting an hermeneutic endeavor into this topic and was looking forward to it.
I have a sister that has been in a Oneness church for 30 years. There are many errors and the denial of the trinity is one of course. I could list several issues, but since this is confined to the topic of the trinity, I will stay with that.
To risk using other books of the bible beyond Acts, I assert Deut 29:29. I believe the trinity is supported throughout the bible even though my limited, fallen mind cannot "explain" it or show it in nature. I also suggest Heb 5:4-5 or maybe Heb. 5:11 due to our dullness and of course Hebrews 9:24.
Thank you for this important information. Maybe we should write and thank Dr. Page for shedding so much biblical light on the topic. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/15/07 11:38:01 AM
Age 30, TN
"Wow! You caught me hook line and sinker on that one." You bet he did. Mr. Silva cast his lure and you took the bait just like many of Silva's other readers who are duped by his misleading article titles and sensationalized writing style. "I was expecting an hermeneutic endeavor into this topic and was looking forward to it." And like many of his other readers, you too were disappointed with what you discovered as you read on further. Yep, Mr. Silva is a master of the "bait and switch" technique all right, just like many shady salesmen with no scruples. Way to go Ken! You fooled another one! --Brian Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/11/07 12:04:54 AM
Age 63, OH
Was God trying to confuse us. When I do not pay any attention to church doctrine and just read the scriptures I see no evidence of the "Trinity". Isaiah 45:21 "Have not I, the Lord? And there is no other God besides Me, A just God and a savior; there is none besides Me." Is this not true, can not God be clear. Can not God explain Himself better than any man. Jesus said when you see me you see the Father. He also said "Hear O Israel the Lord our God, the Lord is one". I can't imagine the creator of the universe could not have created the word "Trinity". Why would He have not have used this word if it would be better. If it is not a better word why do we use it. -- Lou Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 01:36:01 PM
Age 30, IA
Previous quote. "I believe the trinity is supported throughout the Bible even though my limited, fallen mind cannot "explain" it or show it in nature!" This is the common answer from trinitarians when asked to explain the trinity from the SCRIPTURES! It is supposedly a 'mystery' which we have to accept by faith! Or, God's ways aren't our ways! But unfortunately this isn't a legitimate argument for the trinitarian understanding of the Godhead! Romans 1:20 "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are CLEARLY seen, being UNDERSTOOD by the things that are made, EVEN his eternal power and GODHEAD: so that they are without excuse!" Remember 1 Peter 3:15! Go to www.impact-ministry.com/acts2/reward.html Click here to reply to this post
Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/10/07 09:21:05 AM
Age 56, FL
It seems to me that Ken Silva has ascribed to Frank Page motives that he is not privy to. Why not just take at face value his response and deal with that? Another question that comes to mind is, "who made Ken Silva anyone else's master or judge?" Perhaps he should be concerned about his own walk with the Lord instead of everyone else's. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: SBC President Dr. Frank Page Responds To Dr. Ed Young And T.D. Jakes Sharing The Pulpit
Posted On: 01/11/07 12:49:48 AM
Age 61, TX
Perhaps Frank Page's response was pacification, and essentially no response at all. Re: Silva, it doesn't take a master or judge to be concerned about the false teachers and prophets of the day. Jesus didn't worry about being politically correct with the Pharisees. I'm sure Ken Silva is taking care of his personal walk and his responsibilities and maybe providing this information was one of them! But he's also concerned about that very large congregation and the TV audience of Jakes that is being falsely taught, taken in, and taken down. And he's not the only one, plenty of Jakes' erroneous quotes can be found online, with comments by well-known men of sound doctrine and the Berean mindset. However, there are some people who just don't want to hear the truth, even when the documentation is out there. Click here to reply to this post
