As I have previously pointed out in Brian McLaren: The Emergent Cult Leader right in line with other religious cult leaders McLaren shows in his book The Secret Message of Jesus that he doesn’t think the Church has correctly understood the message of Jesus down through the centuries when he writes: “if this reading of the Gospels is accurate, why didn’t scholars see it a hundred or five hundred or eighteen hundred years ago?” [1]
This book provides even further indication that McLaren has rejected the proper Biblical theology recovered at the Reformation. As to why I have labeled this Emergent Church the new cult of liberalism months ago, despite waffling leaders in the evangelical community who apparently haven’t the guts to do so, you also need to know that on page 12 of The Rise of the Cults Dr. Walter Martin (1928-1989), a renowned authority on religious cults having their origin in the United States, clearly explains that:
A cult, then, is a group of people polarized around someone's interpretation of the Bible and is characterized by major deviations from orthodox Christianity relative to the cardinal doctrines of the Christian faith,…
It is as obvious as modern theology (aka liberal theology) trying to contextualize the gospel for its culture–and woefully failing–that Guru Brian McLaren alone fits the above definition. And while Emergents will mildly protest when one criticizes Brian, just try and express that same criticism about their golden Buddha Rob Bell or Erwin McManus and see what happens. You seriously need to wake up if you don’t think they don’t teach the same spiritualistic and human potential mumbo jumbo that McLaren and Tony Jones teach. The fact is that in order to follow these Emergent vipers the evangelical community itself is now turning its back of the Reformation while embracing the contemplative spirituality of apostate Roman Catholicism.
God condemned it before and through myriad deceptions arriving into your churches faster than we can even expose them for you the Lord is condemning it now. Listen to me; modernism/liberalism was about making the Christian faith more compatible with the so-called modern world of its time. And postmodernism/neo-liberalism is now attempting to take you onto the exact same broad and doomed road to spiritual bankruptcy. You erudite “scholars” who’ve been duped by this Emergent cult and its supposed “missional” and “transformational” approach to the “gospel” had better listen to a man who had four earned degrees, a professor who taught Christian apologetics at Simon Greenleaf School of Law and whose doctorate was in the study of the Church Fathers of the first five hundred years of the Christian Church. Translation: Dr. Walter Martin had just a bit more education into the history of what he would so often call “the historic orthodox Christian faith” than Brian, Erwin and Rob combined.
I close with an excerpt from his powerful and spiritually dead on lecture circa 1980’s on what Dr. Martin personally had the guts to label “The Cult of Liberal Theology.” Hear the words of a man who will tell you exactly how the spiritual fathers of Emergent operated. O, and as you read this also consider that Tony Jones is right now studying for his doctorate at the once thoroughly orthodox Princeton Theological Seminary mentioned below. This apostate poser Tony Jones wouldn’t have lasted ten seconds under the great theologian Dr. Charles Hodge.
But also hear this Dr. Frank Page and other leaders within the apostatizing SBC, a denomination that had to battle these very same liberals in the 1980’s and yet now are embracing their evil progeny: If you won’t even listen to fellow SBC minister Dr. Walter Martin, permit me to tell you what the Lord Himself says to you right now – “Fill up, then, the measure of the guilt of your fathers.”[2]
There is a progression that takes place in liberal theology: It begins with a corrupt bibliology, a corrupt view of the nature and the inspiration of Scripture. They have a corrupt theology because once you are picking and choosing from the Bible what you want, your theology has to suffer from it, because your human reason is corrupt... Then from this corrupt bibliology, theology, Christology and pneumatology liberal theology ends up in a complete lack of proper morality, and actually leads people away from what the Gospel says into unchristian and immoral positions.
An inside source tipped a friend of Dr. Martin’s that Princeton Theological Seminary was about to reject the inerrancy of Scripture. This friend then commissioned Martin to make a study of every major theological seminary in the United States and to document for him what had happened. Dr. Martin continues:
it was amazing what emerged. Point number one; every major theological seminary that has turned from orthodox Christianity began with disbelief of Biblical doctrine. There wasn’t a single exception. This corrupt Bibliology then lead them to the next step. Their Theology began to be touched by it, their view of the Cross, the Virgin Birth were both immediately questioned; then came the miracles of Christ.
[T]hey had emptied the Gospel of all its content; they were simply using the outward shell so that they go on collecting money from the people and the churches; because they knew that if the people in the pew knew that they were apostate, they’d throw them out. So the strategy was hang on to the trust funds; hang on to the money we’ve got; hang on the properties we control, and we will gradually educate the laymen into this new approach to theology.
And then finally we will take control of everything. The gradual process of feeding you theological poison until you become immunized enough so that you don’t know what’s happening to you. And when you wake up to what’s happening to you, it’s too late they’ve got everything...the Cult of Liberal Theology in the United States has deliberately and consistently followed this methodology to entrap, control and dominate the denominations and the churches of the United States and our educational institutions. [3]
[1] Brian McLaren, The Secret Message of Jesus, (Zondervan, 2006), (210, emphasis mine).
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Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/27/06 01:45:46 PM
Age 39, OH
There is an alarming lack of doctrine being taught in todays Southern Baptist church, and therefore a subsequent lack of discernment regarding Biblical teaching. That's a sweeping generality for sure, but after leaving a crossless, multi-functional building complete with PDL banners, and a severely divided congregation regarding a pastors actions, nothing surprises me anymore - Not even that the suggested reading list in the church monthly by one of the teen pastors includes "Velvet Elvis". My family and closest friends have learned that it is extremely painful if you decide to demand accountability and stand up against "God's annointed". Check your heart and motives every step of the way, but have the courage to ask the questions. You will find out fairly quickly if your church is Scripturally grounded or not. It cost us a lot of "friends", but the spiritual welfare of my family is more important. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/30/06 06:39:17 PM
Age 51, NH
If you wouldn't mind contacting me I would really like to know more about the SBC church where the youth pastor recommends reading "Velvet Elvis." This exactly what I am trying to warn SBCers about because that's initially how the Emergent junk infiltrates the church - through the young adult and teens ministries. If you haven't seen it here's the link to "Rob Bell and the Cult of Personality": http://www.apprising.org/archives/2006/12/rob_bell_and_th_2.html You can write me at: apprising@hughes.net Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/24/06 03:43:12 PM
Age 54, FL
This is precisely the reason that baptism has almost been wiped off the Christian "map" as far as the how and why...it was never intended to be done to infants. That was the Catholic influence and became convenient so the Lutheran church had to defend its use and developed the use of "confirmation"...no where found in the Bible. I know this will make people mad, but really, everything you read about baptism with an open mind will tell you how to become a Christian and no, it is NOT a work as you are so often told. They really had to twist some things to fool a lot of people but no one will fool God when we face Him. Leaders will particularly be held accountable for this. It is all there if you care to read it. Even primitive cultures can understand it if they just read the Bible and are not indoctrinated first. Thank you and God bless. Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/19/06 07:42:46 PM
Age 57, WV
The first step (before "corrupt bibliology") is compromising with watered down (at best) of perverted (more likely) bible versions.
The King James needs to be retained! Click here to reply to this post
KJV Better or Tradition?
Posted On: 12/20/06 10:43:19 AM
Age 40, TX
The King James is a good version of the Bible and should be retained. The NASB for example is a good version as well. If you can truly understand the language of the KJV, then that might be better for you but I dont understand that language. If older is better than we should read the Latin Vulgate or better yet the original Greek and Hebrew texts. We dont because most of us cannot understand that language. If your concern is over something like the Message, I hear you. That is more of a commentary. Regarding translation science, the vast majority of biblical scholars find the NASB to be the closet to the original text in a language most of us understand. Lets not confuse tradition with biblical accuracy. This is similar to people who say todays worship music is not biblical. Some may not be but because it is new does not make it bad. We need to weigh each new song against Scripture. Lets not confuse our appreciation for traditions such as hymns and the KJV with the authenticity of modern biblical songs and bible versions. Press On, Darren. Click here to reply to this post
Re: KJV Better or Tradition?
Posted On: 12/20/06 02:44:03 PM
Age 62, GA
One of the responses contained the phrase, "the vast majority of biblical scholars find the NASB to be the closest to the original.." Herein is one problem. The scholars do not have the "original".
What they are doing is applying the science of textual criticism in trying to determine the original reading. The view of several of these scholars who gained prominance with their greek text was that the older manuscript, even though it might differ from the majority, should determine the reading. Perhaps this is an oversimplification of the process, but from what I've read does somewhat explain the differences between the KJV and the NAS, NIV, and others that rely on the Westcott & Hort, or similar, critical greek text.
Fortunately, yet, there do not seem to be enough differences to challenge the major doctrines of the Christian faith. The Great Commission is still the task of the church, and Jesus Christ is still God in the flesh. For readability, I like the NKJV and it retains the meaning of the majority text, the readings that were supposedly more in use by the early church. Click here to reply to this post
Re: KJV Better or Tradition?
Posted On: 12/20/06 01:09:14 PM
Age 57, CA
The KJV is a beautiful language, akin to reading Shakespeare (language). True it is difficult to understand and to follow and using both the NASB and the KJV makes for better understanding. As far as today's worship music...some are very spiritual but most invoke the self (me, me, me). Why not incorporate classic inspirational hymns along with today's moder worship music? I have yet to enter today's new church where they sing hymns and have completely eliminated all reference to hymns. Today's generation has no knowledge of these beautifully inspired classics. Why the complete elimination of hymns...that's what I don't understand. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/19/06 09:48:47 PM
Age 18, CA
If you believe the KJV to be the gold standard as far as biblical translations are concerned, I suggest doing a little bit of research. Don't get me wrong, the King James is a beautiful translation and was extremely important to Christians at the time, but we have better translations nowadays such as the English Standard Version or the New American Standard Bible. These are also excellent translations and should replace the King James Version as the standard for translations since (and the majority of scholars will agree here) they are both closer to the original documents than the King James translation-wise and they are also more readablethat is, readers are less likely to be held up by words used archaically. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/20/06 09:08:10 AM
Age 62, GA
This is a typical response to the KJV position, but does not reflect any research into the manuscript evidence behind the translations. Since our church has not started using the "Cotton-patch Bible", or a gender-friendly translation, I have not sought to divide the church over the matter - and it can be a very divisive topic - but I do think that more Christians need to be aware of the basis and origin of the greek texts out of which most all of the modern (more "readable") versions have arisen. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/24/06 11:26:50 AM
Age 28, TX
I agree. The issue isn't over which is the better translation, but rather which texts the translations used. I don't like the KJV based on the 'beautiful language' or even because one text is older then the other, but because I believe that the texts used for the KJV are superior for doctrine and should another, newer translation, be made CAREFULLY and correctly derived from the same texts as the KJV, I would be very interested in reading it. Unfortunately, so far that is not the case.
I'm not saying that KJV is a perfect translation, again it all comes to the texts used and in my extensive research, the other translations are not good but could be used to gain an alternate or more in depth understanding like reading a commentary. My Dad and my husband don't even consider the other translations Scripture, so I think my position is a little more flexible. Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/19/06 03:39:31 PM
Age 38, PA
Pastor Silva,
As a fellow New Englander, straight forward and blunt language is not something I shy away from normally. With this said, your language in this article is not Christ honoring when you mockingly call people, "erudite" among other labels; whether they do the same or not. This language seems to betrays a heart issue of looking down upon others and mocking them. There is no room nor need for this from someone claiming His name in defense of Him and His word.
Jones may not have been able to cope with Hodge but to write the way you did about what amounts in the end to an opinion (Jones' ability to survive classes with Hodge)and your assessment could very well be wrong.
I have recommended some of your articles to friends in the past but after reading some somewhat recent articles and Part 2 in particular, I am hesitent to do so now.
Calling a spade a spade is just fine. Mockingly calling a spade a spade is not good.
In His Name,
Jim Ricker Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/20/06 12:32:36 PM
Age 30, TN
I appreciate your post concerning this article. I submitted a post yesterday afternoon as well concerning what I considered to be inflamatory language used in the article, e.g., calling someone in the emergent church, flawed as it may be, a "guru" or "golden buddha" who propogates "mumbo jumbo". While I am not sure if my previous post (or even this one) will be included in the feedback discussion, it is interesting to note that there are others who share the same opinion of the language used in the article. I dusagree with the doctrines and practices of the emergent church, but I prefer to see more productive rather than sensationalized discussions concerning the problem. Even refering to the presence of emergent church influence in certain SBC affiliated churches as a "Takeover" in the title of the article seems to be a bit sensationalized to me. Certainly the problem of the E.C. influence in SBC churches must be dealt with, but at what point is it legitimate to call it a "Takeover"? Are there Emergent Church members or supporters already in leadership positions in the SBC? Has there been a coup in the SBC and a new group of leaders ushered in to effect change in favor of the Emergent Church? If such is the case, is there documentation to substantiate the claim? In my opinion, using words like "cult" and "takeover" and "guru" and "golden buddha" to describe people you disagree with, regardless of whether in fact they are gravely mistaken in their thinking, is simply a way of causing the reader to assume that they are in a category much farther removed from themselves than what may be the reality of the situation. Labeling someone as a cult member or cult leader has the effect in some readers of dehumanizing the alleged "cult" participant, even to the point of "legitimizng" the use of violent force against them. David Koresh was undoubtedly far from orthodox in his teachings and practice, as were his followers. But does the label of "cult" applied to them justify the use of tanks and machine guns against those American citizens resulting in many people being burned alive? I say, be careful not to throw around the word "cult" lightly--someone having the authority to command tanks may in turn attempt to apply it to you as well.
Brian Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/20/06 07:16:02 PM
Age 39, GA
In addition to the Scriptures referenced by Pastor Silva, you (Brothers Jim & Brian) might check out 1 Kings 18 with emphasis on v27 & v40 (Elijah mocked the prophets of Baal & then had them killed), 1 Timothy 1:19-20 (Paul called false teachers by name, accused them of blasphemy and announced that he "turned them over to Satan), 1 Timothy 4:1-2 (in today's terms, Paul, in public and in writing, called the false teachers sociopathic liars), Titus 1:10-13 (Paul accused false teachers of being deceivers, greedy, liars, lazy brutes, and he called for their sharp rebuke & he made a racial slur (by today's delusory standards) in the process),2 Peter 2 (Peter used sensational and inflammatory (by today's standards)language in reference to false teachers), 2 Peter 3:16 (Peter referred to "unlearned and unstable" people distorting Paul's very difficult writing and made clear that they were accountable and would be destroyed). Of course, a careful reading of the gospels shows that Jesus' discourse, in many cases, would be considered to be extremely rude by our societal standards (and maybe by the Pharisees, too).
My point is only that hard, inflammatory language, in and of itself, is not to be excluded from Christian ministry. I haven't done a detailed study of the subject, but it appears that it was primarily (though maybe not exclusively) used by God's men in dealing with false prophets and with false teachers.
So the only point of debate over Pastor Silva's writing should be whether or not he is correct about these leaders who hold themselves up as ministers of God. We should compare their teaching to the plumb-line of Scripture, and if they don't match up, and if they refuse to repent if corrected, then tney must be false teachers. People who claim to be God's men, but then lead people astray for the sake of power and/or money should be exposed with harsh language and ostracized by the people of God (at least that's what I see in the examples of Jesus, the prophets and the apostles).
I do appreciate, however, your interest in civil discourse. I agree that, in most cases)it is the proper mode of communication for sincere Christians trying to find the truth (though Paul even wrote in Galatians of how he exposed Peter publicly for being a hypocrite, which matches up with his exhortation to Timothy to rebuke elders publicly when they sin).
Regards,
Erik Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/24/06 11:36:00 AM
Age 28, TX
"My point is only that hard, inflammatory language, in and of itself, is not to be excluded from Christian ministry." I agree, however I think that the problem here is the gross generalization (such as beginning an article "Christianity is a thing of the past. Churches now turn to witchcraft and New Age spiritualism in place of strong Biblical doctrines and a relationship with the One True God." While it may be true of some pastors' unfortunate theology and teachings, the emergent church is certainly not taking over the Baptist or any other Christian denomination. We must be careful in our zealousness for truth to not boil our Brothers and Sisters in the proverbial oil. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/20/06 07:33:01 AM
Age 51, NH
Hello Jim, thank you for taking the time to share. You say: "your language in this article is not Christ honoring when you mockingly call people, 'erudite' among other labels; whether they do the same or not." While I believe I understand what you are pointing out, I would have to say that I will let the Lord decide whether what He gives me to write honors Him or not. Men like Tony Jones have themselves mocked Christ Jesus by teaching people to turn their backs on His Reformation and the death of His martyrs. They also teach people to doubt His Word and confuse them as to whether we can even know for certain what God has said. Then you say: "This language seems to betrays a heart issue of looking down upon others and mocking them. There is no room nor need for this from someone claiming His name in defense of Him and His word." You couldn't be more wrong and we just don't agree here. I would direct you e.g. to Luke 3:7-9; Galatians 3:1-3 and 2 Timothy 3:1-9. You also misunderstand my point with Emergent wolf in sheep's clothing Tony Jones when you say: "Jones may not have been able to cope with Hodge but to write the way you did about what amounts in the end to an opinion (Jones' ability to survive classes with Hodge)and your assessment could very well be wrong." Or on the other hand, this might also be an opinion that could also very well be right. But my point actually is that Jones is neo-orthodox (at best), is very actively involved in so-called "Christian" mysticism, and denies the inerrancy of the Bible. He wouldn't have lasted under the proper Biblical Reformed theology Hodge taught before Princeton was killed by Jones' liberal forefathers. And then you inform me: "I have recommended some of your articles to friends in the past but after reading some somewhat recent articles and Part 2 in particular, I am hesitent to do so now. Calling a spade a spade is just fine. Mockingly calling a spade a spade is not good." I would be sorry to have you not be able to recommend my work if the Lord wanted you to, other than that I have no control over it. And you will want to be careful assuming why I write with the tone I do for that would be to mock my intentions. Jim, please know there is no offense taken here. I just think you'll need to recognize the times in which you live. May the Lord open your eyes that you might see the dark red sky this morning and recognize the time in which you live. I am afraid this is only the beginning and should the Lord tarry things are going to get mighty rough spiritually in the days ahead. You may believe me when I tell you that I sincerely wish I had better news. Blessings in Christ, Ken Silva, pastor-teacher Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/19/06 09:23:29 AM
Age 62, GA
I agree and remember hearing the same essential warning from my professors at Luther Rice Seminary in the early eighties - Liberal corruption begins with a weak view toward the inspired Word of God. I also suspect, as mentioned in the article, that money (the love of money) is also working at the root, planting its own "root of all evil". How such deception begins must be connected with a supportive following, many with itching ears to hear something new and sensational. Many such followers are laden with sin and guilt, looking for justification to continue in the "way that seems right to man but leads to death". The way of the cross has never been popular. Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/19/06 03:45:43 AM
Age 58, TN
I have only recently become aware of the "Emergent Church" crisis in the SBC. I am a member of a very large Southern Baptist church and am very alarmed at the information that I have read and also have been told. A large SBC nearby just went through a crisis and caused many to leave the church. The pastor who was attempting a takeover of the church resigned and left the church, but the church has been damaged by this. My church is also in crisis, but a different sort of crisis.
I did not realize the extent of influence the "Emergent Church" has had and is having on SBC, as well as many other churches. It appears to have made great inroads in our SBC churches. This is very distressing. Every member must be warned of this subversive attack on our churches! Unless the members are made aware of what is happening, they will be as I was - completely unaware of what is taking place behind the scenes.
I have been told that the president of a very prominent SBC university nearby no longer wants to have all their teaching staff be of the Baptist faith. He feels it will give the student a "better education" if other views are presented. This Baptist university is funded by our tithes! If this is true, it is unbelievably naive or there is an agenda. CAN YOU PLEASE INVESTIGATE THIS? We as SBC members need to know if this is planned. I certainly would not send my child to this university for an "education" of this sort. Young people have enough things to confuse them and pull them away from their Christian beliefs without the very Baptist university confusing them with "alternate beliefs". I also would not want my tithes going to this university. If you contact me Worldview, I will give you the name of the university. Click here to reply to this post
Tithe somewhere else
Posted On: 12/19/06 12:47:55 PM
Age 36, GA
I'm all for paying the pastor and staff and the light bill, etc., but the tithe is an OT law. (Yeah, 'heresy' I know! I though the same thing the first time I heard it.) If you choose to tithe, there's no requirement that any or all of it go to the SBC church you happen to be attending. Support a missionary. I'm considering supporting Gospel For Asia. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Tithe somewhere else
Posted On: 12/24/06 11:51:57 AM
Age 28, TX
My husband supports Gospel for Asia. It's been a very good thing for our family, I think. Our tithe goes to our church (sometimes some of it we give to specific members in the church that we know are having a hard time.) But, when we get over time or gifts (like monetary Christmas gifts) we tithe from the surplus and send that to Gospel for Asia, Martyrs, ect.
I guess it seems pointless to me to argue wither or not we are commanded to give tithe today, because God has always supplied our needs and it's a privilege to be able to give back into his kingdom. If people only gave what they wanted or thought they could afford, the physical needs of the church would not be supplied. While struggling to meet our basic bills (we even lived with our inlaws for a while because we couldn't afford rent) we continued to tithe faithfully. I believe as a result, we have seen with each birth of a new child a raise and promotion in my husband's job. In four years he now makes $15,000 a year more! Someone helped us purchase a home two years ago (gave us the downpayment) and someone else recently offered to pay half the cost of a new van, which we so desperately needed. I found one on EBAY for $10,000 less the list price, less then a year old and in great shape!! I cannot deny that I have seen God move more in our finances then any of my non-tithing Christian friends.
May the Lord be praised forever and ever,
Sarah in TX Click here to reply to this post
Re: Tithe somewhere else
Posted On: 12/20/06 07:27:56 PM
Age 39, GA
I've recently heard the argument against tithing being required of Christians (including a reasonable, but not airtight, response the the point that Jesus told the Pharisees that they should tithe). I would caution you, though, not to lead others not to tithe. Tithing transcends OT Law. Abraham gave a tithe to Melchizedek, and that act predated the Levitical Law and Priesthood. Furthermore, the writer of Hebrews makes clear that Jesus' priesthood is superior to the Aaronic (Levitical) priesthood and that Jesus is a priest "in the order of Melchizedek." He even points out that the Levites were complicit in Abraham's offering due to their having been in his loins. Abraham believed God, and it was credited unto him as righteousness; Abraham tithed to a member of the priesthood of which Jesus is a member. Both issues are outside of OT Law. I also believe that the real spiritual benefit of tithing is in "believing God" by giving at least 10% even when human wisdom would say you can't afford it. If any of you agree with the argument against the tithing requirement for Christians, I would say that you should be so joyful in your giving that it far exceeds 10% anyway.
In regard to tithing to the local church, is there any scriptural precedent for giving tithes to parachurch or missions organizations (esp. since I can't even find them existing in Scripture)? What I remember from both OT and NT is that the primary path of tithing or of giving offerings was to the spiritual leadership in charge of the local assembly of God's people. I would say that any gift to other organizations should definitely be considered an offering or charity and should not be thought to satisfy God's requirement to give to the local body (tithes or otherwise).
Regards,
Erik Click here to reply to this post
Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/18/06 03:33:46 PM
Age 61, TX
I'm very intrested in knowing more about the emergent church. Our Southern Baptist Church has been having advent candles for the last two weeks and we have never done that before. My grown children were asking me what is going on. I told them that it is a predominately Roman Catholic practice. Also, do yo know what Chi Alpha is? My granddaughter is just beginning in the youth group at our church and the leader really stresses Chi Alpha. Do the practices have anything to do with the emergent church movement?
Thank you for any help you can give me. My children look to me for answers on these things.
Sharon Weems Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/19/06 10:00:09 AM
Age 54, MN
I did a google on Chi Alpha and Wikipedia gave a definition. Here is the link:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chi_Alpha. It says: Chi Alpha Campus Ministries (usually known as Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship on campus, but sometimes University Christian Fellowship or "Schoolname" Christian Fellowship, and occasionally Christians in Action) is a Pentecostal Christian ministry for college students. Despite its name, it is not a fraternity or sorority. Chi Alpha is often abbreviated XA.
In many respects Chi Alpha is similar to InterVarsity Christian Fellowship or Campus Crusade for Christ, although it is sponsored by the Assemblies of God and is thus denominational rather than nondenominational.
It goes on to give it's origin as a ministry
(The Assemblies of God) to collegians in 1947 at the urging of J. Robert Ashcroft (father of John Ashcroft), which consisted of a newsletter sent to college students to encourage them in their faith...
...Taking its name from a contemporary Assemblies of God youth movement the group was called Christ's Ambassadors (a phrase in 2 Corinthians 5:20). Soon the name was changed to Chi Alpha to sound more like a college honor society.
It says more than what I've included. Perhaps it depends upon who this group is affiliated with. I would ask those who are involved with it and with that you could decide whether it's Emergent related or not. For more info on the Emergent Church, I would recommend that you check the other articles written by Ken Silva on this website and his ministry website www.apprising.org or Ingrid's website at www.sliceoflaodicea.com. Hope that helps. Best wishes and Merry Christmas. Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/19/06 08:34:28 AM
Age 51, NH
Hello Sharon, you say: "I'm very intrested in knowing more about the emergent church." It's very bad news. I've personally studied it for over a year now and I'll give you the direct link to my Emergent Church archive here:
http://www.apprising.org/archives/emergent_church/index.html Then you point out: " Our Southern Baptist Church has been having advent candles for the last two weeks and we have never done that before. My grown children were asking me what is going on. I told them that it is a predominately Roman Catholic practice." I am a former Roman Catholic myself from a multi-generational Roman Catholic family on both sides. There is a definite trend in SBC and evangelical circles going back to this kind of Roman Catholic bondage. Finally you ask: "do yo know what Chi Alpha is? My granddaughter is just beginning in the youth group at our church and the leader really stresses Chi Alpha. Do the practices have anything to do with the emergent church movement?" I have checked into Chi Alpha and this link off their site tells us they are sponsored by the AoG: http://www.chialpha.com/resources/index.php?display=links It's a student/campus ministry which has flawed dominion theology as its base and while I didn't see anything overtly Emergent it is something I'd keep a close eye on for names like Rob Bell, Erwin McManus, Tony Jones and Brian McLaren to come up. Especially as there is a link to "Relevent Magazine": http://www.relevantmagazine.com/ upon which I see a few things I would never recommend to Christians. And there is another red flag for this Chi Alpha as we go to a sister site: http://www.xapioneering.com/home.htm it talks about "Coaches" who are trained to help you see "God's Kingdom established" and this is consistent with Emergent lingo. So I'd be very warya nd I do pray this helps. Then you say: "Thank you for any help you can give me. My children look to me for answers on these things." You are most welcome Sharon because it is my privilege as a pastor to serve God's people. If you feel I can be of further assitance you may contact me at apprising@hughes.net or www.apprising.org Click here to reply to this post
Re: Re: The Emergent Takeover of the Southern Baptist Church Pt. 2
Posted On: 12/19/06 08:19:47 AM
Age 20714, MD
Advent candles are not emergent in the least. They are a wonderful symbol, or reminder, of what Christmas is all about: a Savior coming to save us from our sins.
Check out this blog post by someone who knows what advent is all about: http://str.typepad.com/weblog/2006/12/the_first_adven.html.
As for the youth group, I have no clue what you are talking about there. But I think that you need to be careful in investigating the emerging church in not condemning everyone or everything you see, yelling "emergent! emergent!" It's important that we intelligently investigate and come to conclusions. Some of those conclusions may be that not all emergents are followers of Brian Maclaren and his heretical teachings. Go check out 9Marks ministries site and search for "emergent" and read some of that material to get a good grasp on what it is before calling the SBC a soon-to-be emergent stronghold, liberal, etc. It's good to be on guard, but we don't need to jump to conclusions too quickly. Click here to reply to this post
